Should Floyd Patterson be criticized for for defending his title against

You're doing good research. It appears the situation in 1958 might be a bit more confused than I originally thought.

Those yearly ratings are not the ones which really count. The summer ratings are the ratings the big fights are based on. Hopefully, the quarterly NBA ratings will appear one day, and then it will be possible to get a much better grip on who was rated where at what time.

If what the first article says is correct, neither Machen nor Folley were actually the #1 contender going into the summer, each losing standing because of what must have been a really poor showing for both.

Who then was the number one contender?

My best guess is that it was Harris,

which will tick some off, but if you live by the ratings, you will die by them too. I don't see how you can go ballistic because a rating organization rates Machen #1, and then spin on a dime and say, for example, that a win over the consistently high-rated Pastrano doesn't really count for much.

*It doesn't make much sense that D'Amato had already signed for Harris. Why were offers to fight Folley and Machen being even discussed then?

Are you certain that fight had been signed?

And what is the story about Machen turning down an offer to fight Patterson for the title?

**by the way, as you didn't refer to it, did you notice the second article? It is very interesting.

 

Machen Folley was delayed from early March to April, I suppose they was concern neither would be ready for a June title fight, so Harris was signed in april for a June fight. Couldn't link it but an article on the draw states, the winner of Patterson Harris will likely face Folley.

But Patterson Harris also got delayed.

Nothing on original Machen offer yet.

 

What day in April was that fight signed?

The Machen-Folley fight was on April 9, and these articles on the 10th. If D'Amato had already signed, why were offers for other fights flooding in. And neither article mentions that Patterson was signed to fight Harris.

 

Maybe not signed, they just say scheduled here.

[url]https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19580402&id=ayAiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=r3IFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3006,1062600&hl=en[/url]

 

I think the issue of who was rated number one is a fairly important one for evaluating Patterson.

Certainly his critics have really gotten onto his case over the years for not fighting the top men, but if Harris was in fact rated #1 (and whether anyone today with hindsight thinks he should have been is beside the point), Patterson looks better.

*It is certainly possible that Folley was the #1 contender for the NBA,

I hope someone can find the NBA ratings.

 

If what mongoose said was true then I think Harris was a legitimate choice.. I don't buy the Machen vs Folley Draw as being a good reason for Harris getting the shot, but Machen being injured is a valid reason. Harris was at least #3 which is within title shot range even if he wasn't a mandatory.

 

I also think we should not reach definite conclusions until someone unearths an unambiguous source.

However, the article Mongoose produced does list Machen as the second rated heavyweight and Folley third.

More substantially, I think, the judge in the court case of Machen v Johansson which I quoted (I am not certain on this thread or one of the other ones) stated that Machen was only rated #2 by one of the rating bodies when he fought Johansson. I assumed when I read that decision that Folley had been number one. Now I think it might well have been Harris. It does make sense as the NBA ratings were quarterly, so the summer ratings wouldn't have been replaced until October.

 

Okay so he was #5 and not #3.. But sometimes there are other reasons for top guys not getting in with the champ right away than just the said champion being protected or fearful. Machen was injured.. Roy Harris was a respectable challenger. Sometimes that's just the way the dice falls. Throughout his career Floyd Patterson fought Archie Moore, Tommy Jackson, Ingo Johannson, Sonny Liston, Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo and Muhammad Ali.. I don't think his heart should be questioned in terms of his willingness to get in the ring with elite men or even Cus D'Amato's confidence in him to take such fights.

 

What about the NBA ratings?

The NBA after all is the major official sanctioning body which put out ratings.

And how seriously can I take a rating which puts Pastrano above Harris when Harris had beaten Pastrano?

The Ring ratings were respected, but unofficial.

 

I came across an article called the Liston Chronicles which details Liston's rise to the championship--

after covering his early fights and the DeJohn and Williams fights--

"By the end of 1960, Liston demolished Nino Valdes, bounced number two contender Roy Harris off the canvas three times before stopping him in the first round, and looked very strong against the number one contender Zora Folley. Master boxer Eddie Machen, ranked third, went the distance but mistook the ring for a race track."

Note that this article lists Harris as #2 when he fought Liston, which if accurate, indicates the NBA rated Harris much higher than The Ring did.

I personally have not seen those NBA quarterly ratings, but I repeat that I hope they become available. Boxrec has a page for them, but hasn't put up anything later than the early thirties so far.

As for The Ring ratings, while I respect them, they do seem to be very New York centered. New Yorkers then and now can be provincial in seeing the whole world revolving around them.

New Yorkers remind me of a story I heard about a Chinese guide who answered an inquiry from a tourist about why the Forbidden City was built where it was with the reply "Because this is the center of the universe."