Most Overrated and Underrated heavyweights of patterson/Listons era

JOhannson was not a gold medalist. He was DQd in the gold medal round for running against Big Ed Sanders. He earned a Silver Medal but it was withheld for his performance (although in his defense Sanders wasnt doing a whole lot either). But yes, Johannson is underrated to a degree. His right hand was pure dynamite.

 

I think the real outstanding contender who eclipsed both Valdes and Coccell was Archie Moore.

 

Thanks for that correction.. Still an impressive career both in the pros and amateurs.

 

I realize Valdez was rated ahead of ****ell and had Valdez been able to maintain that rating for anything more than a few months at a time he would have gotten a title shot. Instead he got beat by a LHW who had already defeated him (the fourth time that had happened) and Marciano defended against the guy who beat him and who deserved the shot ahead of Valdez all along.

 

It was and the sad thing is that that DQ in the Olympics overshadowed his amateur career which was impressive and as I said on another post his power as an amateur was impressive. His problem was always whether or not he could land it. He was one of those guys that hit so hard he could land a punch that didnt even look hard and knock a guys brains out.

 

Im sorry but thats simply not true. One of those articles is talking about Ring Magazine ratings. How many times do I have to repeat to you these ratings are meaningless. The other article is quoting Bobby Gleason, Valdez' manager. In fact the NBA released its revised ratings on January 10, 1954 and Charles was rated as the outstanding challenger for Marciano, not Valdez, despite what Gleason thinks (and frankly given that its quoting a discussion with Gleason its entirely possible the conversation took place before those ratings came out.

 

Name me a champion that defends against his #1 every single time out without fail and then tell me Marciano was wrong for defending against his #2...

I dont care if its Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Floyd Patterson, Ali, Frazier, or anyone else. Any champion who has a tenure of more than a couple of years is going to defend against someone who isnt his #1. It happens and its understandable on occasion as long as it isnt abused. Marciano didnt abuse it so your indignation is misplaced.

 

"Folley the number one contender"

I think Johansson was the number one contender in 1959. Patterson defended against him in June.

 

Not sure myself.. But with a first round knockout of Machen along with an undefeated record and being a former olympian it seems logical that he might have been. Weather he was #1 or #2, he certainly was no soft touch.

 

That's is at the end of the year 1959, basically the January 1960 ratings.

London fought Patterson in May, 1959.

Do you dispute that Johansson was the #1 contender during the first half of 1959 and going into the Patterson fight?

*Shouldn't be much dispute about this as Johansson is the champion here.

**Note that Johansson had knocked out three of the top five and four of the top ten on this list.

***If your point is that Folley was at one point the number one rated contender, there is no dispute. But he was not the number one contender when Patterson defended against London.

****The issue these ratings might raise is not if Patterson should have defended against Johansson in 1959, but if Johansson should have defended against Folley in 1960. Personally, I think the defense that year should have been against Folley, with Patterson matched with another contender, probably Liston, to prove his right to a rematch. But Ingo is not to blame. The return-bout clause bound him to make his first defense against Patterson.