Should Floyd Patterson be criticized for for defending his title against

Edward

Here is the July 1958 rankings RING

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=5IoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6230,2647652&hl=en

Champion Floyd Patterson

1. Zora Folley
2. Eddie Machen
3. Willie Pastrano
4. Archie Moore
5. Roy Harris
6. Nino Valdes
7. Ingemar Johansson
8. Alex Miteff
9. George Chuvalo
10. Harold Carter

 

Maghoo, Mongoose, Klompton, Edward

Read this

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=uvwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6130,3858396&hl=en


Some quotes from this article titled "Its high time patterson was exposed to physical hazzard" Dec 8 1961 by The Telegraph

"Cus D'Amato, was making noises indicating patterson was preparing to run back to his hole again and continue to hide from Liston and other worth while challengers."

"Damato indicated that he preferred Henry Cooper, another soft touch, as his next opponent"

"This now raises the big question, how much longer are the Dizzards who run the beak busing business, or are supposed to conduct it, going to tolerate the gall of the young man who clutches the heavyweight championship and his presumptious manager? This cautious yet bold, alliance has defied authority, broken all the ordinary rules of fair play and outraged the comparatively few fight fans remaining, with their evasion of opponents who might do harm to the doughty title holder."

"If D'Amato objects to Liston as a foe for the pure Patterson because of Sonny's alleged underworld connections, there are three other good fighters around despite what the champion and Cus the Mus have done. It's time to stop this nonsense-Patterson boxing nobodies."

"Eddie Machen, has been knocking for several years at the door behind which Patterson has been lurking. Harold Johnson is highly regarded. Doug Jones is a solid puncher, which probably barns him automatically from a shot at the heavyweight crown."

"Asked of whom patterson would fight if not Liston, little napolean DAmato, still full of cloak and dagger said 'if i told you, you'd know, and I might not get to him.' It is logic like that which brought patterson and Damato to the top and has enabled them to keep the title-against blokes like hurricane jackson, pete radamacher, roy harris, brian london, mcneeley. Gun Shy Cus will go down as the greatest of managers."


"Cus Damato parlayed Floyd Patterson into millions of dollars without once knowingly exposing him to physical jeopardy."

 

So the only one saying Machen turned down a Patterson fight is Cus himself right? So we must take Cus's word without any other evidence?

There is plenty of evidence Machen wanted Floyd

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=4UkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5756,2177449&hl=en

Machen challenging Floyd here in 1956



If we took all other managers words for Gospel, Then Bobby Gleason(valdes manager) said "Nino can punch and Cus doesn't like to fight punchers"

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=3IkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3268,3137950&hl=en

 

Ok


National Boxing Association June 1958

Champion: Floyd Patterson

Co Number 1's: Eddie Machen and Zora Folley

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=jPcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6070,494524&hl=en

 

For people saying Williams never fought anyone...

He at least tried. He had a scheduled match with Harold Johnson in 1960

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=GugDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5111,4130156&hl=en

Got called off when Johnson got injured...too bad

 

stop making excuses, floyd had plenty of time to negotiate a fight with his number 1 or number 2

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=gPcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3446,327973&hl=en


https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=M80EAAAAIBAJ&pg=4221,4190345&hl=en

"A lot of fighters ducked me and it wasn't only Floyd Patterson when he was champ"- Zora Folley

"We put up gaurantees but patterson would always back out" - Bill Swift, Folleys Manager



https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=sPwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7195,937495&hl=en

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=8VYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7173,1286870&hl=en

"I can't believe after all these years, Floyd is finally going to get in the ring with me"- EDDIE MACHEN 1964


https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=vIoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3364,3161872&hl=en

 

Mongoose,

Check back on Page 4

Here is what you said


"The Holman win did more for Pastrano, than the Valdes win did for Machen. "

 

1. Machen and Folley- Boring and Colorless. Yet still earned the respect as the number 1 and number 2 guys. Machen called Floyd out as early as 56.

Where is your evidence Machen turned down a fight with patterson other than from D'amatos word of mouth?

Harris was popular, why because he was white cowboy who could fight? Wheres your proof he was more popular than Machen or Folley?

Where is your evidence Harris was rated 2 leading up to fighting patterson?

I have my own two eyes. I think Floyd and Machen presented far stiffer challenges for Floyd stylistically than Harris, Radamacher, Mcneeley, and London did. I think they are tough fights for Floyd.

I also think Johansson-Machen rematch would have gone a lot differently. Johansson caught Machen cold like he did Patterson. In the rematches, Patterson sparked him out. I don't know if Machen would do that, but I think had a rematch gone off, it would have been very close. Machen actually sued johansson for breaking the clause of a guaranteed rematch.

I think Folley and Machen proved throughout their long careers both were very good classical boxers who deserved a title shot in their primes vs Floyd Patterson anywhere from 1957-1961.

Except both Machen and Folley reached number 1 status during Floyd's reign and he did not fight either man, instead fighting 4 men who were rated lower.

 

We both know Eddie Machen was not physically or mentally stable by 1964. He shouldn't have even been allowed to fight. He was sent to the Nut House in 1963 and never recovered.

Furthermore which is a different debate,

I have a lot of evidence that suggests Patterson ducked a WBA elimination match with Cleveland Williams in 1964 order to fight Machen. Plenty of evidence. Different debate.

Again we are talking about Patterson Title Reign. Not after Patterson title reign.

Patterson should have fought 2 of his 7 title defenses against Machen and Folley. True or False?

My opinion is Cus D Amato did duck punchers during Floyd reign, and when Floyd convinced Cus to let him fight a puncher, he usually got knocked out early. I think floyd was vulnerable against big punchers.

 

Nothing is fantasy. Eddie Machen and zora Folley are better than Roy Harris. Both deserved title shots over Roy Harris. That is reality not fantasy

As for a documented timeline of events, that's s lot of work. I'm just s boxing fan, not a self proclaimed historian like you. I have a full time job and family to support, if you do boxing full time then please by all means give me a timeline telling me how Roy Harris deserved a title shot over those two and why he was just as good as those two.