"The bigger the trees the harder they are to cut down"- Sonny Liston

Hilarious post. You should take your act on the road.

 

If size didn't matter...

...there wouldn't be weight divisions.

 

Well, Wlad has been undefeated and champion for ten years.

Satterfield lost 1/3 of his won-lost decisions, was knocked out by middleweights like Jake LaMotta, light-heavyweights like Moore, Foxworth, and Hall, and a bunch of others.

Still, the four best big men of the fifties prior to Liston coming on at the end were probably Baker, Valdes, Holman, and Williams, and Satterfield managed to beat them all.

The heavyweight division (and all other divisions) is not now and has never been defined by the lowest weight, but by the highest, and back then as today the heavyweight division was unlimited. The heavyweight champion by definition is and was the man who could beat any man walking the Earth in a boxing match.

 

The flaw in this argument is that Liston might just have been a better and more solid p4p fighter than Patterson, or in other words a 190 lb. Liston would probably have beaten Patterson also.

I also think if Ali were a couple of inches shorter and 15 or 20 lbs. lighter he would still have beaten Patterson easily.

You say Patterson has speed. Well, when did he show it against Liston? Foot speed? He didn't move at all. He acted as if "lateral" as in lateral movement is a pass thrown backward in football. Hand speed? He fought like he thought a combination is something to open a safe with. He just stood in one spot and bobbed a bit with Liston throwing punches while Patterson kept his hands carefully tucked against his cheeks. Watch Machen in comparison.

Any fighter, regardless of size, who neither throws punches, nor moves, is going to lose, and against someone like Liston, probably quickly.

 

If Patterson was this bad, why did Ali call him the most skilled man he ever fought?

 

"why did Ali call him the most skilled man he ever fought?"

Well, the two Ali fights are on film,

as are the two films with Liston. Not being able to get out of the first round twice is not exactly a ringing endorsement of one's skill.

 

Watched it again for the first time in years Patterson 4 rounds Ali 3. Ali won his rounds bigger, but fights are still scored one round at a time.

You have to remember that Ali was not the most popular boxer in the world in 1972, or the most popular athlete, he was the most popular PERSON in the world, and the judging often reflected that. He lost to Jimmy Young and Norton III.

 

Well, I just watched it today when you asked me to.

Ali was popular, but the crowd seemed to be rooting for Patterson, who was liked, and clearly--at least to my eyes--overmatched.

We best agree to disagree, because I saw Ali winning easily. I scored it 6-1 for Ali.

*I agree with you though about the scoring in some of his fights. Norton I and Spinks I were split decisions?! I thought both were one-sided, and Norton 3 and the Young fight could have gone the other way.

 

Excluding Marciano of course .. ? Have to ask as it seems completely the opposite of your mantra the past five years or so ..