The Speed of Post Exile Ali

I'm not going into this endless discussion again, but if you think Ali was at his best for any for the fights you're deluding yourself. And I think you know it.

 

He was still the fastest around but he wasn't the speed demon he was before being exiled.

 

Certainly Still Very quick... when he wanted to be, But the Quicksilver young man had become a fully mature Man, so a loss of that Twitch-fibre instinctive Speed was inevitable, but more than compensated for in that Mature man Physical strength, so a still fast boxer, he could afford to lose some, but backed up and compensated for, Ali's hand speed seemed to diminish less obviously, His dismissal of Lyle and opening up on Quarry and Patterson in their 2nd fights highlighted this,

Also one must remember that the Post exile Ali did have a roadshow mentality on many occasions and did not put out a full effort, saved for Joe Frazier Perhaps, ?

 

Ali pre exile would have destroyed Ali post exile. The handspeed was okay afterwords, but not as before, the reflexes in avoiding punches was no way near Ali from the 60´s and his dancing was not there either. The best Ali is the one against Cleveland Williams. No one had beat that version before or after in the HW history.

 

I see the version of Ali circa 1970-74 as having around 85% of the hand and footspeed he displayed prior to his exile in the sixties. He was still avoiding a lot of punches in that period too. Obviously not as many as he did prior to the lay off but still a hell of a lot moe than he did post Manilla. Compare the second Frazier,Norton and Foreman bouts to the later ones such as third Norton and Shavers fights. Quite a difference.

 

He may still have been the fastest HW in late 1970, but he had lost a significant amount of speed, of both hand and foot.

 

When did he get faster than Floyd Patterson?

 

Hard to say for sure.

I'd guess some time between 1958 and 1960.

 

Ha!

Yes his foot speed, dancing endurance, & reflexes declined the most, especially the first two.

I think vs. Liston the 1st time for example, Liston was not as declined as many think.
He just looked slow against Ali.

Very few HWs in history could have beat Liston then, certainly if you add the substance that blinded Ali for a while, whether Liston knew about it or not.

Ali vs. Williams was unreal. Williams letreally hardly landed a glove on him in several rounds.

 

Declined? sonny liston had a record of 35-1 going into the Ali fight. He was no match for Ali.

 

Hell, Dokes may have been faster than Patterson.

 

Ali declined in speed, more so of foot, in the '70's.
Liston was definitely not peak against Ali, 35-1 record nonwithstanding.
But he was still a Force who few would beat.

 

Yes he showed he could take a punch as good maybe better then any heavy that ever was Unfortunately he took to many

 

It was a debatable fight from start to finish.
Frazier looked to have slipped further than Ali had since the 1971 fight but he did land a good deal of heavy punches.
Ali spent far too much time grabbing and holding but landed a lot of punches too.
It wasn't an impressive performance really, although Ali had numerous cheerleaders in the media to say it was.

For me it makes the win over Foreman even more remarkable. Going off the Frazier fight, and the fights leading up to it (W12 Bugner, L12 Norton, W12 Norton, W12 Lubbers), the idea of Ali KOing Foreman in 8 rounds is incredible.
It's still hard to explain now.