Which Heavyweight Champions Does Archie Moore Beat?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jul 4, 2015.


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  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Moore gets called a great heavyweight on occasion, I maintain he was not. A great light heavy yes,possibly the greatest, but only a very good heavyweight imo.

    To stimulate a discussion along those lines, abd to indirectly prov my point, I ask which of the lineal heavyweight champions would he beat over 15rds?

    Your opinions please?
     
    mcvey, Jul 4, 2015
    mcvey, Jul 4, 2015
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    From Dempsey onwards I'd pick him to beat:

    James Braddock, Leon Spinks, Buster Douglas, Michael Moorer, Old George Foreman, Shannon Briggs, Hasim Rahman.

    He'd have chances against others, but those are my picks.
     
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    #2
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  3. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jack Sharkey maybe
     
    The Funny Man 7, Jul 4, 2015
    The Funny Man 7, Jul 4, 2015
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He could also beat guys who were at the wrong end of their careers, guys coming to the end of their reigns who were defeated by less accomplished fighters than Moore.
     
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
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  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Moore would have killed that big goon primo Carrera. Look what Larry gains did to Carnera
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think what Carnera did to Loughran is more pertinent, but Moore could definitely beat Carnera.
     
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
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  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Ya can't get that Larry Gains fight out of my mind. Gains was no Moore. Gains embarrassed Carnera. Also sharkey hammered Carnera 13 rounds to 2. Sometimes I doubt if sharkey could even beat Moore

    Loughran got stepped on his toe early and never recovered I don't think that was the best version of him either...and I think more is a class above Loughran..unlike loughran mooore could really hit enough to badly hurt Carnera

    Styles wise I think there is such a huge gap in skill and Moore was a sniper as a puncher... Moore was great against big men too. His upper body movement in the early 50s was outstanding I doubt Primo would even hit him

    22-1 with 19 kos against men 200lb or over
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree that the best version of Loughran wasn't beaten by Carnera but clearly the best version of Carnera wasn't beaten by Gains. Furthermore, he wasn't the champ when he lost to Gains. So whatever the details, Moore has to beat the same version of Carnera that beat Loughran, who is, like Moore, an ATG light-heavyweight champ.

    Moore does have the weight of punch to get it done I think, but in a fight where there's a 65lb weight advantage, a six inch height advantage, a ten inch reach advantage and the smaller man was never the champion of the division the bigger man was the champion in - i think the possibility that Moore would fail should be seriously entertained.
     
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    #8
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Has anyone told you, you are a little rascal B. E.?
     
    mcvey, Jul 4, 2015
    mcvey, Jul 4, 2015
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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Well you have to look at who Carnera faced to win and the title and what were the circumstances that led to his winning the title. The whole thing smells of rotten fish. Regardless, Sharkey was finished as a top fighter by 1933. If Carnera had to go through a prime Marciano to win his title, could he have won it? Doubt it.

    I think it comes down to this. In order for a superheavyweight to beat Moore, he has to be highly skilled or hit like a truck. Carnera does not possess good skills, nor does he hit very hard. He also wasn't that good at using his physical advantages to fight at range, at least not good enough for Moore's slipper upperbody movement, fast counters.

    It's hard for me to envision Carnera being able to outpoint a 1952 Archie Moore, or knock him out. While enjoying huge physical advantages, he simply was not good enough for a Prime Archie Moore. But you make some good points.


    Also one name you left off, Ingemar Johansson. I think a peak 1948-1954 Archie Moore has a good shot against him. Stylewise, Ingo might have a tough time landing his right hand, archie was so smart. Moore could really punch too, johansson did not have good whiskers, I could see johansson falling into a Moore trap.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    #10
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Anyways, To answer Mcvea



    Moore beats

    John L Sullivan
    Bob Fitzsimmons
    Tommy Burns
    Marvin Hart
    James Braddock
    Jack Sharkey
    Gene Tunney
    Primo Carnera
    Leon Spinks
    Michael Moorer
    Old George Foreman
    Shannon Briggs
    Hasim Rahman


    Ingemar Johansson 50-50
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    #11
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Im curious to hear opinions on why Tunney beats Moore? Too me thats a toss up. I favor Moore slightly. Sure Tunney beat an ancient Jack Dempsey, but Moore would have gave a boxing lesson to that version of Jack as well.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jul 4, 2015
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree that 50-50 is about right for Johansson (gun to my head and i'd put my dollar on Johansson, but it's close); but I wouldn't out and out pick Moore. I was asked to pick the fighter he would beat. I also wouldn't out and out pick Moore over Sharkey, if we're talking about Sharkey at his very best. Sharkey's all over the place though. This one is a close fight too IMO.
     
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Too many ringsiders did not have the fight for Walcott to use the word robbery without seeing the film. About a third of writers and (of course) 2/3 judges found it the other way. In other words, if you prefer writers, it's not hard to find 2/3 writers, if you prefer judges, the judges found 2/3 for Louis.

    I don't want to have this argument again, and I definitely, definitely, think Walcott could have had his hand raised there, but it's not Pacquiao-Bradly. Out of 100 media cards there were, I think, two for Bradley. 50-1, that's a robbery without film. 3-1? Nope.

    But, to each his own.
     
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 4, 2015
    #14
  15. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Presumably, the TS means best version v best version.
    This content is protected
    Otherwise, we could greatly increase the list and include the likes of Ali of Holmes and Berbick.

    And if we're going with best for best, I can't see including Buster in that heap.



    This content is protected

    (The exception to this might be Foreman, as we essentially had two separate entities there.)
     
    cuchulain, Jul 4, 2015
    cuchulain, Jul 4, 2015
    #15
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