Larry Holmes vs Jack Johnson

When was Johnson's prime?

 

According to some of his fans, Johnson has no definitive prime. In many cases he wasn’t focused, injured, out of shape, not trying, or participating in “ arranged “outcomes.

A more level headed reply is Johnson's best filmed appearance was vs. Burns, so 1908-1909 would be his absolute prime even if he was knocked silly in a sparring match vs. a very green GunBoat Smith, drew with a much smaller Jack O’Brien, or was floored by a crude swinging super middle weight in Stanley Ketchel. All of the above happened in 1909.

What would Larry Holmes do vs. such a man if they shared the same ring?

A bit of a rhetorical question. TKO Holmes, inside of 10 rounds.

 

I think Holmes could outbox him and not have to trouble himself with getting in close and wrestling with Johnson. Larry's footwork, reach, jab and ring acumen would be something that I don't think Johnson had ever seen.

 

Too strong a jab and offense for Jack to overcome. Jack's stance and skills were ideal against the one punch at a time heavies of his day and may have worked well against many later but it limited his offense. He could catch many of Lar's jabs and straight rights but would not be able to throw much in return, his weight on the sideways placed back foot wouldn't allow it.

 

Holmes almost always liked to mix it up and get dragged into wars. I see this fight being no different. This whole fantasy larry holmes where he stays away and uses his jab to control the whole fight, is just that, mythical for the most part.

 

Kurupt, which fights are u thinking of? Even in Shavers 2 and the Snipes bout he was boxing behind the jab when caught. Against Witherspoon he traded as Tim didn't give him a choice and against William's he was past his best, but from ****ey down he boxed and controled from the outside. No way would Larry get in a clinch match with Jack.

 

I don't think he would get into a clinch war with Johnson. Holmes is not an idiot. What I'm saying is, that Holmes got hurt often times he responded by trying to slug his way out of the situation. This is where he'd end up in the clinch with Johnson. My contention is that Larry Holmes was not that hard to hit. We see this over and over again in many of his fights. Even you illustrate that when he was caught in some fights he was fighting off his jab. So the notion my post was referring to is this notion that holmes creates distance.. stays at that distance... and jabs so much that he is rarely hit. People will just say... Larry stays at a distance behind his jab and cruises to Victory. As if Larry isn't there to be hit, he is, and has been numerous times. I'm not saying he'll decided to get in a wrestling match with Johnson, what I am saying is, that he will get hurt and caught by Johnson. Whether he can finish Holmes is another matter.

 

Take someone like Johnson, who would catch or parry that jab of Larry's and return fire, then it spices thing up a little bit. This is a key reason as to why I believe Louis would take Holmes out. The jab is the easiest punch to counter, and is a formidable reason I give Johnson a chance, but there is much more to consider. For what it's worth I think Larry would win a decision, at least competitive, potentially very close.

 

i give Johnson no chance. too much evolution and time in between both eras. holmes beats everyone from that era

 

I remember reading that Cus D'Amato thought Larry was "clean shot hittable" and that Tyson would always have beaten him. I don't know about that, but I agree with him and you that Holmes was there to be hit, as the Snipes fight showed. Of course, he had the ***** and grit to come back after being walloped, but he wasn't a defensive genius.

 

The big question mark for me in a match up like this is whether or not Johnsosn would be able to deal with the movement, jab and combination punching from a big skilled fighter like a prime Holmes, or Ali for that matter. Nothing in the available films of Johnson answers this for me. Ketchel, Burns, a washed up corpse in Jeffries and a very limited Moran don't make me comfortable picking him here. Prime Larry would be 6'3" with a 79-80 "reach and abut 210llbs of fast HW to deal with. Jack could easily block the 1 or 2 shots at a time HW's from his era but what about the 3,4, or 5 punch combos launched from a distance from a Holmes sized fghter? Not so sure about this one. I'm not ruling out a Johnson win but he's gonna have to switch gears big time and get busy from the get go if he wants to win this one. No cradling a MW sized opponent in his arms and taunting the crowd here. This is the true big time for Jack.

 

Close fight, hard to score, perhaps not easy to watch.

 

You cant really judge Johnson on the fight film there is vs today though.

Every one talks about the 1 or 2 punch era, vs the faster pace fights today, but there is a reason for this. Johnson was not in 12-15 round fights, but 20 perhaps more, the Willard fight was 45 rounds, so your not going to see many "dancers". The rules and limited of the eras are just so far out there, I just make Johnson the favorite in a fight under his rules, and Holmes the favorite under his rule.
Just because you don't see Johnson not dance around, and well hold a lot, didn't mean he didn't know how to, His style was design to save as much energy as possible, and drown his foe in the 30 something round.

 

Good post .. if you watch the Willard fight you actually see a 37 year old, fat Johnson show far more aggression that in any other filmed bout .. throwing multiple punch combinations in his attempts to take Willard out .. it is high unusual for him but interesting to see that even at that age and in that condition the man had a ton of game to him ..