It should have taken Ali 3 years (71-74) to fight for Hw title.

Ali, won 14 straight fights after his fight with Frazier. Don't think it should have taken him 3 years to get another shot at the Hw title agaist Foreman. Was it it politics?

 

he also lost to Ken Norton in the interim.

 

It was Frtazier as he wanted no part of any future Ali fight with purse parity .. I have no idea why they did not have a rematch in 72 or so ..

 

It is interesting though.

 

I wonder if Frazier was too injured to fight for a while and Ali just went on tour to build a rematch? Then he had the Norton thing to resolve..

With Ali fighting so many ranking contenders in 1972 Frazier was actually not left with much to defend against.

To this day I don't know why Foreman was rated over Ali either?

Why was Foreman not forced to fight an elliminator with Ali???

 

Good points and a couple of damn good questions.

 

I think Joe was exhausted after the first fight and wanted to rest on his laurels. Can't blame him, really. But then in '73 they both lost and that totally derailed things for another year.

 

Of course you can blame him for not facing a ranked contender for nearly two years.

After Ali had toyed with Quarry in mid '72 would have been the perfect time for a rematch. In Joe's defense Foreman was ranked ahead of Ali and Frazier faced him instead.

On the other hand it's nigh incomprehensible that Ali wasn't the clear nr 1 contender. He deserved to be and it was also the fight the public wanted with by far the most money in it, so Frazier probably wouldn't have chosen to fight Foreman, mandatory or not, if he was keen on facing Ali.

 

I've a feeling that Yank Durham was very wary of Joe taking an Ali rematch. He knew that the FOTC had taken more out of his man than it did Ali,in spite of getting the well earned decision. It is quite well known nowadays that Yank wanted to Joe to hang them up after 1971


And,as has been mentioned,it all became academic for a bit after both men were upset by George Foreman and Ken Norton.

 

But before that he went almost two years without taking on a remotely decent challenger. Think you have to go back to Dempsey to find something like that, but still Joe rarely gets stick for it.

And I don't buy the whole thing about hiding behind your manager. A champion has to take responsibility for conducting himself like a champion. After FOTC, Joe didn't really.

 

I agree with you on both points. As strong a character as Durham was reputed to have been,Joe could have got a 1972 Ali rematch had he really wanted one. It would have made perfect sense - Massive money spinner and a hungry public.

I see Ali winning it. A similar scenario as the actual 1974 rematch,albeit over fifteen.

 

Frazier should have retired after the 1971 fight.

 

Few of them go when they should.


Looking back on it,Ali should have retired after Zaire.

 

I don't think Joe hid behind anyone or needs to. He cleaned out the whole division. Ali, Ellis, Quarry, Bonnevena and Chuvalo. By 1971 that was everybody.

Who was he going to fight next in 1972? Old Patterson? Old Terrell? Bugner?

Ali needed some wins to re-establish himself. But got tied up with Norton.

I still don't know what Foreman did to rate so high. I think Frazier was right to wait for Foreman to establish himself too and an elliminator with Ali would have been logical.

Taking two gimmies while a new and logical contender could be confirmed does not seem to be ducking at all to me.

 

Come on, Stander and Daniels weren't even close to the top 10. Stander would lose to Cleveland Williams in his next fight, just to give some perspective on how poor he was.

Of the ones Frazier hadn't faced before Lyle, Shavers and Patterson were far more deserving challengers. Even guys like MacFoster and Al Lewis were more deserving. Sure, he had beaten Bonavena, Quarry, Chuvalo and Ellis before, but they were still much better than Stander and Daniels. Were those two even in the top 20? Hell, even Cleveland Williams merited a shot as much as Stander, obviously.

After Ali had beaten Ellis and Quarry as well as fringe contenders such as MacFoster, Lewis and Chuvalo, he surely was in line for a shot. The Norton setback didn't come until after Frazier had lost his title.

A champion shouldn't go almost two years without facing a ranked contender. Simple as that.

Ali is criticized for defending against Dunn and Coopman, even though he had faced Lyle, Bugner and Frazier the previous year and faced Young and Norton the same year. Imagine what would be said if Dunn and Coopman was his only two defenses between Zaire and Norton III...