Which Heavyweight Champions Does Archie Moore Beat?

Moore beats Tokyo Douglas too, because Moore would likely bring an actual cutman to his corner and implement a smarter strategy than "Punch Archie Punch."

 

He stands a good shot at anyone pre Louis and maybe Walcott, although I'd favour Walcott. Obviously Leon Spinks and old past it Ali, M Spinks is a toss up after that he's too small for any lineal champ except maybe just maybe Briggs and old Foreman.

No, more criminal underrating of Buster. He might beat the fat version Holy faced

 

You don't think Tyson perhaps having the worst corner in Heavyweight Championship history and showing up with absolutely no strategy, made the biggest upset of all time possible? A corner that let his eye close and couldn't offer any advice but "punch!" Making an otherwise decent fighter with a good jab look like Sonny Liston?

A motivated and in shape Douglas presents problems but he never should have been able to beat Tyson.

 

That's what I've been arguing about with him for two days and I'm still not convinced that Moore would beat the Douglas who Evander Holyfield beat and why? Because he wasn't Evander Holyfield..

 

No.. It has nothing to do with how I rate them on some sort of list, because how I rate legacies and who I pick to win in head to head matchups is totally different.

 

Than he should have worded his question better:

"I ask which of the lineal heavyweight champions would he beat over 15rds?"

Tokyo Douglas wasn't a lineal Champion.

Good point, Moore actually may be better than Holyfield. Most rate Moore over him P4P and Holyfield wasn't that much bigger than Moore.

 

The question is head to head, and Marciano should rank highly on a head to head list of heavyweights pre 1970.

 

Moore was a master of the counter right cross, you really don't think he could catch that lazy version of Douglas?


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMPXHqGiB28[/url]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM3VOSiaUEQ[/url]

 

I wasn't ranking his head to head abilities solely within the time frame pre 1970, and i don"t want to derail the topic and start a marciano debate. The point is, if Marciano and Patterson can handedly beat Moore and while being outside their pinnacle along with generally being on the low end of head to head matchups ( throughout the entire era of the sport and not within a designated time frame ) then Moore's chances aren't good in my book... Where the disconnect comes into play is that you give Patterson and Marciano huge props in a lot of fantasy fights. I don't.. I appreciate your helpful insight on the issue, but I'm sticking with this position.

 

Why? That's 70 years of the sport, a smaller heavyweight like Moore can be evaluated without the dreaded size issue derailing H2H discussions. 70 years where Patterson and Marciano stack up quite well as two of the tougher H2H Champions.

And how off their pinnacle were they? Is there any performances that point to Patterson drastically improving or Marciano declining? Or just guess work based off their ages in relation to other fighters who progressed or aged differently?

 

Very impressive footage. The problem is that he's not facing a 6'4", 230 lbs heavyweight who just hammered Mike Tyson in that footage and nor is he showing the type of elusiveness that you referred to earlier. I see a man who is standing right in front of his opponent, leaning on him, throwing a lot of wide open hooks and crosses which makes openings for counter attack and who is there to be hit.. Still a great fighter, but not for some of the guys you're putting him up against. Could he have beaten Douglas on the night of October 1990 when he decided that he simply wasn't going to fight or train? possibly.. But that would distinguish Moore from a long list of nobodies who might have done the same thing.

 

because you're not matching Moore up with pre-70's heavyweights.. That's why. When you claim that he can beat Douglas, Foreman, Moorer, etc, then now you're expanding the time frame to go beyond 1970 - a period where I don't see Moore, Marciano OR Patterson fairing well against a lot of foes... If you want to limit the discussion to only heavyweight champions who careers predated 1970, well then that's another discussion.

 

Neither is Holyfield.

I guess you missed Moore ducking, weaving, and pulling back from everything that was thrown at him.

Moore at his best wasn't there to be hit by anybody. Even Patterson with all his speed and accuracy was missing in bunches. Hell, before he gassed out he even had Clay swinging at air and hitting glove as a 48 year old man.

And speaking of which, the counter right he rocked Clay with would have been enough to knock out fat Douglas. So 48 year old Moore could probably win the title in 1990.

Please stop the double speak. You make the claim that Moore may not be able to beat that Douglas. When called out on that claim, you go back and say, a long list of nobodies could beat Douglas, so what?

 

This is in regard to you saying you don't think Moore could EVER be a Champion based off the Marciano and Patterson fights.