Really? I bet 80%+ of the posters here disagree with that. Okay, now I know where you stand. Everyone can have their own opinion.
i do not buy that either Tyson was not great & was merely exposed by a guy who was motivated & not afraid-OR that Douglas was nothing special that night. Douglas always had tons of talent & put it together that night. AND he needed Mike Tyson to be poorly trained & off his game to beat him. Both. Facts. Apply.
Agreed on both. The one thing that really surprises me - how easily Douglas outboxed Tyson. In fact, he won every round and dominated the fight from pillar to post (except the knockdown in 8th). It really leaves many questions how THAT Douglas could perform vs Tyson from Holmes and Spinks fights. In their real fight Douglas won no less than 8 rounds, and the round where he was dropped he gave Tyson a beating before that uppercut.
No, this is the Tyson excuse theory and shows a lack of understanding of what went in the ring. Douglas's strategy completely nullifies Tysons fighting tactics and would beat any version of Tyson. Douglas's use of lateral movement to take away Tyson's left hook is a skill no one else was enough to do. His counter punching with his right and uppercuts as Tyson moved into range saw Tyson stunned and pushed on the back foot every time. His use of range and 1 of the best ever heavyweight jabs is what won the fight. His jab and speed of combinations for a man his size is very rare in SHW Tyson was in the same type of condition for his prior 2 fights and won. Douglas earned his shot and looked good against McCall, Berbick and Williams. He also looked good against Tucker. If you think Tyson was slow, with no footwork, no defense, no combinations, very low punch output then Jeffries would be even more so in all those facets and would simply be target practice for Buster Douglas beat 4 world champions
I pretty much agree. Buster was a 48-1 underdog, to put in in perspective Mike Spinks was 6-1 or 4-1 underdog , and everybody knew that one was a slam dunk. That's how little people thought of Buster Douglas at the time. In his next major fight, Douglas looked like a punk and opted to take the count vs. Holyfield after getting hit early. As mentioned he lost to journeyman before ( White and Ferguson ), before meeting Tyson, and lesser punchers than Mike KO'd him. Douglas pulled off the performance of his life, but Tyson's short comings ( Swelling, defense on the outside vs. a bigger man not afraid of him, and lack of long term stamina when pressed into a fight not on his terms ) were reasons for the loss in hindsight.
Douglas was neither a second rate contender nor an all time great, what he was was a guy who possessed good boxing skill fairly good hand speed respectable power and a long reach which he knew how to utlise, on his best night ,not a foregone conclusion ,he gives anyone trouble.
An ordinary in shape heavyweight would have been murdered by Tyson that night. His prep for Douglas was the same for Bruno and Williams who were both better than ordinary in shape heavyweights. Douglas was in consistant form. Leading up to that fight he won fights off the radar nobody was interested in but he was matched to lose those fights and he kept winning. Buster was a decent, active contender who earned his shot winning competative fights after the Tucker loss. Tyson became confused as soon as Douglas kept landing. He was programmed to fight instinctively one way and not used to so much resistance. Mentally it was not what he was prepared for. He ran out of ideas. Stranded in a no man's land where he could not reach buster. Tyson needed to think and work at the same time but could not think and work at the same time. Tyson became a sitting duck. He was brave, he kept trying but Buster was a move ahead once Tyson became confused. Being one move ahead is as good as having a "pause" button on your opponent. Douglas had the TV remote control that night.
Good point B.U., & another great post Choklab. Now I thought Tyson was even more dissipated in training before Tokyo, & I do not recall him ever before losing much weight quickly ^ sapping his own strength. Nor getting dropped by sparring partners, that is my only quibble. The dieting, upgraded schedule of alcohol/drugs & whoring. But your point stands that he would beat any ordinary, or even good, HW contender. His speed & power alone was too much for all but a select few-even when so declined. In shape & focused, I do not think even Holyfield had a chance then. He needed to gain strength AND be able to clinch a lot. PEDs helped. Just not one with excellent talent, heart, size, & a great, well executed game plan.
A fighter is only as good as the other man lets him look. I think the being dropped in sparring was publicity that backfired. Lots of in form champions have been decked in sparring and won their fights. Page was certainly good enough to deck anyone and provide sharp sparring. Page was under 225lb in the fights he had that year. If anything having Page in camp showed how serious Tyson was. There were easier and cheaper guys he could just have took to Japan. Tyson would have crumbled early if he was really so weight weak or ill prepared, much more like Buster himself was against Hollyfeild. I wonder who Douglas sparred with in training for Hollyfeild? For Tyson, Douglas was used to winning more competative fights and was far sharper than much of Tysons challengers. Bruno, Spinks and Holmes came off great lay offs. Douglas was beating real live guys who were trying to beat him. A lot of challengers were treading water with much easier fights than Douglas was winning before meeting Tyson. Buster was up for it and had the blue print.
Even if Tyson wasn't in his best condition, people will still point to Douglas-Holyfield as an example of how ordinary Buster was ... Despite him being well out of shape, mind of how Mike was out of shape when he fought Douglas apparently. There is an element of truth to this, but PP hit the nail on the head with an excellent post. Why aren't people willing to accept that the stylistic match up favours Douglas here? To try and put it in context, if we are to propose the idea of a rematch, apparently the deciding factor is which Tyson shows up, COMPLETLEY disregarding any threat Douglas brings to the table.
JJ was an inside fighter, his stamina and strength were legendary. He would grind down Douglas in the trenches. Assuming this fight goes 15 rounds, Jeffries would be the one coming on late. It would be like the reverse of Tyson. Douglas was a great fighter that for one night , but I still give it to Jeffries. His style was inside and pressure, slower more clubbing blows, with constant clinches and roughhousing. Douglas would wear down against such a determined foe, and Jeffires would likely fight at a closer range than Tyson, giving Douglas less use of his reach advantage. Brutal fight, and I think it would be incredible.
When did Jeffries exhibit this stamina and strength against a 6'4" 230lbs class fighter? Actually when did he exhibit it against any class fighter of 200lbs? Tyson was faster and hit harder than Jeffries he was also harder to hit.