Cleveland Williams hit harder than Sonny Liston

I get ya and I agree. It kind of reminds me of the cult around some of these guys with such a supposed great chin. Ever notice how most of those guys never amounted to much? Purrity, Chuvalo, etc. I just dont see a lot of sense in lauding a guy for essentially being able to take and accept an ass kicking and then brag about it in a sport where the idea is that your toughness and fortitude see you through to win the fight. Finishing second best in boxing is finishing last.

 

If you follow baseball arguing about punching power is like arguing about fast*****. Yeah sure maybe David Clyde threw harder than Tom Seaver. So what? Severn had better control, better command of his pitches, more variety, and knew how to pitch better. I will take the guy with a 95 mph fastball that has control and knows how to use it over the guy with a 100 mph fastball and nothing else.

Edit: this is the nadir of irrational censorship.

 

I think most people realise Williams was well over the hill in that fight.
It was just the amazing skills and speed that Ali displayed that night was something to behold.

 

No, no, no. You haven't been paying attention.

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It was the Cleveland fight that erased all doubts about Sonnys legitimacy
as top contender He took the big cats best punches...
Its not always the hardest punch that knocks a guy out..Look at all the great punchers
that never knocked Bonavena out..Then Ali hits him on the mark ,Oscar
never seen it coming..I think Sonny had a harder jab or stiffer one at least

 

Who cares??? at the time there was probably thousands of people in the world that hit harder, it's who you knock out and how effective you are that really counts....

 

Finishing second best in boxing is finishing last.[/quote]


What if it still makes you a million bucks, second best i mean

 

I agree i watch that fight in awe not cause Williams but cause Ali was so amazing
I can't watch it without saying to myself "Now i get why people who think he was the greatest feel the way they do..

 

What if it still makes you a million bucks, second best i mean[/quote]

Thats exactly whats wrong with boxing today. A guy can fight 20 nobodys over 3 years and get a #1 ranking, challenge for a title, make 1mil to lose, and the never has to worry about achieving anything. Where is the incentive to actually win. In the old days it wasnt uncommon for a challenger to make next to nothing for a title fight. He only got to cash in when he won it. Im not saying that was right either but it sure kept the sport a lot more pure when a challenger knew he had to fight his ass off and that there wasnt any safety net there.

 

Thats exactly whats wrong with boxing today. A guy can fight 20 nobodys over 3 years and get a #1 ranking, challenge for a title, make 1mil to lose, and the never has to worry about achieving anything. Where is the incentive to actually win. In the old days it wasnt uncommon for a challenger to make next to nothing for a title fight. He only got to cash in when he won it. Im not saying that was right either but it sure kept the sport a lot more pure when a challenger knew he had to fight his ass off and that there wasnt any safety net there.[/quote]
Bang on!

 

What a puncher Williams was

 

Odd though isn't it, that Williams will be picked on as a fighter for lack of wins over legitimate fighters. But Liston is touted as far more credible, and who do you think will always be mentioned as some of Liston's greatest wins??

 

Possibly, but Liston was better at pretty much everything else. Cleveland Williams hit much harder than Usyk, would he beat him? Once in a hundred times

 

Liston beat what was around in his era, knocked out the champion in a round twice when he was past his best and being avoided for years, Liston’s resume isn’t amazing but there’s not too much he could’ve done about that, put a 1958 Liston in the 90s and you’d have one hell of a resume

 

Excluding Williams himself?
Zora Folley
Eddie Machen
Nino Valdes
Mike DeJohn
Floyd Patterson
Roy Harris
Later...Henry Clark