Is Joe Louis The Most Complete Heavyweight?

I also don't see how Louis is more complete than Ali.

 

Mainly because Ali never fought really on the inside or threw a serious body punch.

I think the real basics of being a "complete fighter" require, for starters, in terms of offense:
fighting on the inside, fighting on the outside, attacking the head, attacking the body ...

 

Even when a cruiser he'd be a HW of decent size in most eras. He was a naturally larger man than Charles, Patterson and several other HW champs.

Yeah, I can see why many are suspicious of his gain in muscle mass as a fully grown man along with the "Evan Field" thing.

 

The most tenured, but not the most complete. His opposition was average. He struggled vs. smaller men and had some dubious moments vs. journeyman. He used the color line as only two of this 26 title opponents were vs. black men. One was a personal favor to a sick man ( JH Lewis ) ; the other was a questionable decision in the first fight ( Walcott).

I have him around five. The interesting this is historians from 1900-1960 don’t view Louis as a top 3 ATG. This makes you wonder if past champions were better than we think.

 

The only way to really appreciate a fighter from the 50's and before was to have actually been there. Fight tapes just don't capture the entire skill of the fighter to the degree that today's fight tapes do.

 

and louis had a great defense?he was knocked down a lot of times,some disgraceful knockdowns ala buddy baer,galento...bowe showed good defense against a prime holyfield,blocking and slipping punches,certainly better than lewis whos defense against a past prime holy was running and leaning

 

Enh...I hear you but I think that the fact that Louis lacked Ali's legs (and to a lesser extent, chin) made him more limited than the fact that Ali chose not to throw body punches and preferred to fight at distance.

 

And Braddock too, right? Question: If Bowe fought all of them twice, on the same night, do any of them drop him?

 

I only have Louis in my top 5 as well.


But, I cannot think of anyone else that was better all around than Joe Louis.

The ones that perhaps are close are

Larry Holmes
Max Schmeling

And of course Evander Holyfield

 

I think Bowe took too big many shots and was washed up quite early. The 3rd Holyfield fight he just soaked up punches, not to mention to Golota wars. Even against Herbie Hide he absorbed way too many.
Louis made mistakes sometimes but rarely took the volume of punches Bowe managed to take.
I'm not saying he was super slick but he tended to keep the blocking, parring, slipping and ducking going enough.

 

prime bowe doesn't lose a round to any of louis's opponents.i like joe louis,but 185 lbs charles and the clumsy baer brothers ets... do not have a chance against a best superheavyweight ever!

 

i agree that,but i meant bowe from the first holyfield fight!
i agree he had a very short prime and was sloppy and washed up quite early,but bowe showed he had everything in the first holyfield fight - great offense and a solid defense against a prime fast handed atg fighter!

 

Well, I think Louis chose to fight with little foot movement just like Ali chose to do what he did.
I always got the impression Louis shuffled around because he wanted to, not because he really had "no legs" or "slow feet". In his prime he always caught up with his opponents or drew them in.

I'm not saying Ali wasn't a great fighter but he really cut out some huge chunks of the basics (and to be fair, he was good enough to get away with it.)

I think there are several champions who can be called "complete" fighters, because that's the kind of fighter who becomes champion.
Joe Louis, probably "the most complete" heavyweight, but it's subjective.

 

Yeah, that's what made me mention him. :good
Shame it didn't last long.

 

Bowe had the defense of a colander and the fortitude of balsa wood.