Where does Stanley Ketchel rate as a puncher all time

Ignorant statement. If Fitz weighed in the 150s until he was over 40 years old he was no heavier than Stanley Ketchel. If Fleischer rated him as the hardest puncher ever (see 50 years at ringside) then he rated him as a harder puncher than Ketchel. Period. I dont care if Fitz frequently fought bigger men his own weight is all that matters and he was a MW by any standard. The fact that he KTFO of guys that were much bigger than anyone Ketchel ever fought only makes his case stronger for being a harder hitting MW than Ketchel.

Fine, show it to us. Point it out. Tell me what minute and second into the film it falls and I will be happy to look at it. Even if it happened, which it didnt. What does it prove? Ketchel landed a punch on Johnson and he "stutter stepped" before resuming the one sided ass kicking. Did Johnson go down? Did he stumble? Did it change the course of the fight? Why is this evidence of Ketchel's power?

Really? Losing almost every round to an aging fighter before having to pull the fight out of the bag with a knockdown is one of his greatest performances? Hardly. And furthermore, Fleischer made it no secret that as a young man he idolized Ketchel. Is it any wonder he ranks a guy so highly that he barely saw fight?

Sorry pally by deluded fan boys like you hate it when the facts come out. I have no agenda against Ketchel. In fact I consider him one of the most important figures in early 20th century boxing. He was basically a Mike Tyson given his quick rise and fast fall. But people like you or Mendoza who WANT to see what they want to see irk me and Im quite comfortable educating you on the finer points. Its not my fault you continuously come on here and spout B.S. that is easily proven false. I would suggest that instead of reading old magazines which have repeated these fables for years you get out of your comfort zone and read what the actual people had to say.

 

Not at all, I've always sided with those that have taken the trouble and expense to obtain them ,as my posts will prove.:good

 

I have a bridge to sell you. Its a great price. Someone asked why people think the knockdown was fake. Considering most people then, and I would imagine most now, think it was fake based on both ringside viewing and the films not to mention the rumors sorrounding the fight, well, my post illustrated why, I believe. It was a onesided match in which Ketchel had no chance in hell and that knockdown was needed to sell pictures that would have otherwise been boring, repetetive, and unsatisfying to a largely white public who hoped for more from Ketchel. Then, like now, some people want to believe that the Ketchel KD was legit either out of stupidity because they dont know what they are looking at when they watch boxing, out of hero worship because they want to believe in the mighty Ketchel, or out of hatred against Johnson for any number of reasons. I find it hard to believe that anyone who isnt stupid, suffering from hero worship, or bias against Johnson and is familiar with boxing, could watch that knockdown and believe it was anything other than staged. I would personally love to hear how you can claim that as a legitimate KD when Johnson is clearly going down before the punch lands. If you want to argue that Ketchel landed on Johnson as he was slipping, tripping, or falling then it hardly does anything to show that Ketchel hit so hard that he hurt Johnson, and if you admit that Johnson was falling then you have to deny that Ketchel was the reason why. If you deny that Johnson was going down before the blow then you deny reality.

 

You're entitled to your point of view, some of us just differ with you.

 

I'm not telling you anything, I'm saying Moore has 50 kos at or under middleweight that is three more than Ketchel's career resume.
Furthermore I'm stating categorically that 75% of Ketchel's ko's are over the biggest load of dross the division ever saw. And I've just published their records to prove it.

I don't know why you are taking this so personally, I haven't even made a pick against him 'I'm just questioning your dogmatic assertion that he is the greatest puncher the division has seen .

The reason I'm questioning it is because the facts and his record do not support that opinion.

Ketchel kod Kelly in 3 rounds, 10 months later Papke kod him in a minute and a half of the 1st round .
Jack Sullivan was kod by feather fisted O Brien in 3 rounds, it took Ketchel 20 rounds to put Sullivan away.

In Sullivan's next fights after Ketchel, he was stopped in 13 rds s b y3-2-4 Terry Chastain .

Mike Sulllivan was twice kod by Joe Gans!

So I don't think those results are that impressive at all.


Here's some of Moore's ko's at the weight:
Johnny Romero 114-27-7
Frank Rowsey 51-19-3
Jack McNamee 49-11-1
Ron Richards 85-19-7
Alio Sabato 56-19-8
Fred Henneberry 60-16-6
Shorty Hogue 52-10-3
Big Boy Hogue 49-14-6
Lloyd Marshall 55-12-3
I think they compare very favourably with Ketchel's best.:good

 

In real fight Jack could kayo Stan in the first 60 seconds. That fight was a frame up. Fighter A is holding up fighter B. The knock-down was comedy.

 

Whoah there Johnny. So when you scream about Moore being rated by Ring mag as #38 of the greatest punchers of all time ( when you are trying to defend Marciano beating the old man ) we can now take that as sh it I suppose.

Because I am sure they didn't put in the proviso " but we'll discount his 50 KO wins at 160 and lower " or did they?

 

You're not playing fair now.I'm taking my ball and going home. :fire

 

I believe Moore's was prime at 175lbs same as Charles, Duran at 135lbs ,Robinson at147lbs,Langford at 175lbs .that's does not mean they did not have great careers at other weights. Moore's 50 ko's stack up very well with Ketchel's 48 in both impressiveness and quality.You've lost this argument Suze , sorry Bud.

 

In terms of the knockdown, it looks like the punch landed on Johnson's ear. If this is the case it could have put him off balance, for whatever that is worth.

 

So was he anticipating the punch landing on his ear and anticipating going off balance because of it because, again, he was already going down when the punch curves around the back of his head (which is how most people described it that saw it live). Im not just making that up and the film doesnt lie. Even one of the reports I quoted above mentioned that he was pitching forward before the punch even "landed." :think I would say again that there are two scenarios: 1. Johnson faked it (which is what I believe). or 2. Johnson was already slipping or off balance when Ketchel threw that punch and it just "helped" Johnson go down. Either scenario, and those are the only two plausible to my mind, doesnt illustrate that Ketchel either hurt Johnson or could hurt Johnson. In fact everything about that fight illustrates that Johnson was about as worried about Ketchel's power as an old alley cat is of a blind baby mouse.