Ketchel vs Johnson news read.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Oct 13, 2007.


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  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Anything about Johnson sustaining a blackeye, which is visible on the film according to Mendozy? Ketchel and Johnson met in Barney Curley's hotel suite and rehea*sed the fight, this is according to Curley. Ketchel said I can't pull my punches and Johnson is supposed to have replied just do the best you can and let me worry about it. Believe it or not, each will make up his own mind.
    One thing is crystal clear to me however.

    Anyone who thinks this fight has two men fighting to the best of their respective abilities should take up watching wrestling.
     
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    #46
  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No mention that I saw of a black eye.

    I have also read the bout was rehe****d.

    To me this bout was fought in a typical Johnson style and pace. The one thing that gives me pause in terms of believing it was fixed is what appears to be great facial damage inflicted on Ketchel. His face appears covered in blood during those late rounds. He was also KD in the second and prevented from being KD again by Johnson holding him up. Also as typical in Johnson bouts his opponent lands few punches. The few that do however seem to do damage......first round right hand that appears to rattle Johnson and that left in the seventh that produces the swelling on his jaw.

    It's all very curious and difficult to interpret. Johnson dominated in a way one would not expect in a fixed bout. Yet we do have Smiths account of the fight where he states without hesitation it was faked.
     
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    #47
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    So you think Johnson was laying? There was no demand for a re-match. NONE. The fight was a mis-match? So why would Johnson lie about having the sorest jaw he can recall? Do tell! Ketchel was small and crude, but he could punch.

    How can you say the press was not in position to see if Johnson was dazed? This is dumbfounding. They were there you were not! The press said it was visible for the crowd to see. There is no film on Greb period. One could play the same games on a Greb fight. Show me the film to prove this.

    I clearly posted a primary report that says there was a visible mark on Johnson's face from a blow that Ketchel landed in round 7. Did you not read it?

    If the knock down was a fake, then why did Johnson get up and end it so brutally? Because it wasn't a faked rehe****d knockdown. I'm pretty sure Ketchel did not agree to go out that way! Fix my @ss.

    You're a smart guy but sometimes you do not allow facts of others into your reasoning.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    #48
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    This is how I see it. Ketchel did not agree to go out that way on a fix. Utter BS. Also the fix stuff bubbled up after Ketchel's death which made the story one-sided.

    As for the film itself, its very old, and blurred. Even the KO by Johnson looks like he's not landing solidly.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    #49
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Can you repost what I said in full context so I can read it? I proved rather clearly there was a visible mark on Johnson's face. Do you deny that? There is your mark. Case closed if you think there wasn't one.

    The eye region swells up most often from punches, the chin or forehead often do not.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    #50
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just to be clear. My comments are just to state facts. I admire both fighters very much. Both were among the greatest fighters in their respective divisions. My comments concerning the fight should in no way be interpreted as a knock against Johnson.
     
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    #51
  7. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There are good copies of this bout on YouTube. Most are blurred while a few look like first copies and are quite clear. It's still silient film quality so movements are more jerky like every third frame is removed. You need to look at all these bout from these early eras with a trained eye.
     
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    #52
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think every so often Johnson put Stan in his place when he got too frisky, and he knocked Stan down twice and held him up 2 more times to prevent him hitting the floor.
    You've seen the film Jack grabs him and holds him upright Klompton has the near full version, he corroborates what Adam Pollack says in his second volume of Jack Johnson , which I highly recommend.
     
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    #53
  9. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ketchels face is just covered in blood a real mess from round seven or so to the end. In a fixed bout that was rehe****d in advance why all the damage and the KDs? You don't beat someone slowly to death in a fixed bout I would think. It's just all very odd.
     
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    Perry, Jul 31, 2015
    #54
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No, the fight was viewed with suspicion in the next days papers.

    There are loads of contemporary quotes from newspapers in Adam's book to back this up.Many questioning the power of the blow that supposedly dropped Johnson.

    The film is ,"very old and blurred ,"and yet YOU can plainly see Johnson is sporting a black eye?

    You have just disappeared up your own rectum.

    Congratulations!!:good:happy
     
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    #55
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You stated Ketchel gave Johnson a black eye and I asked if you were joking.

    Here's your quote.

    "The fight film shows Burns gave Johnson a black eye. "
    YOUR POST DATED 14TH October 2007 1.19PM

    CAUGHT OUT LYING YET AGAIN!:oops:
    DEAR OH DEAR.
    WHAT WILL MUMMY SAY?:nono
     
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    #56
  12. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Old, blurry, out of focus? I think not.

    [url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/vlcsnap-2013-11-18-18h43m39s163_zpsbe077008.png[/url]
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    And there are two famous photos of this fight just after the knockout. One taken of Johnson leaning over a stricken Ketchel with the camera looking directly at Johnson. The other of Johnson, one hand rested casually on the ring ropes as Ketchel is knocked out. Both photos are very clear and neither shows Johnson with a black eye (as Mendoza said) or a swelling on his jaw. In fact the one photo is perfectly framed so that the entire line of his right jaw (the side that Ketchel's left would have supposedly raised this lump) is showing and there is no difference in Johnson's features than before the fight. Back to the drawing boards guys.

    As for Mendoza's story that these rumors only came out after Ketchel died, well thats bull****, the day after papers were already saying that Johnson had carried him. Just another case of Mendoza seeing what he wants to see and believing what he wants to believe.
     
    klompton2, Jul 31, 2015
    klompton2, Jul 31, 2015
    #57
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I asked you to show me where I said Ketchel gave Johnson a black eye on film, and then you lamely say oops, it was the Burns fight posted nearly 9 years ago.

    You must have a reading comprehension problem. If you had any integrity you would be embarrassed repeatedly asking me for something I never said. But your old, cancerous, and forgetful among other things.

    So in other words I never said it but did produce the fight report that said Ketchel produced a visible lump on Johnson's face.:hi::hi::hi:

    Johnson said his jaw was sore from a 160 pound man who hardly landed much, and he was also knocked down my him.

    :lol::lol::lol::
     
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    #58
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    ItÂ’s the film I was referring to, not still shot photos. See post #49 in this thread.


    Also where does carrying him = a fix fight? Re-read this. Johnson toyed with lots of short and over matched types. When did the statement of a fix come out? Due tell. Dates and names please. And Ketchel as far as I know never had a chance to reply back that the fight was pre-arranged or fixed.

    Finally if you think this really was a fix, which other fighter on Johnson were also fixed? Why bust Ketchel up so much? Why get hit hard by a shot that produced a lump on his face? Also, why not go down if your Johnson to really build interest in a re-match? I noticed you skip many of my questions.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2015
    #59
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No, I've no reading comprehension problems, or spelling ones and I've never referred to Sam Langford as Sang Froid as you have.
    The underlined is just the latest example of your illiteracy.

    You are a phobic, poisonous,compulsive Johnson hater who makes himself evermore ridiculous each day

    From claims of Burns breaking his ribs, to him deliberately fouling out in fights , from quitting in early fights,to being groggy when he arose against Ketchel ,its all discredited bullsh*t
    You are a habitual liar and everyone here knows it.

    Your problem with Jack Johnson is:

    HE WAS BLACK!!.
     
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2015
    #60
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