Why did Louis decline faster than his contemporaries?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Entaowed, Aug 3, 2015.


  1. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Joe Louis was one of the greatest boxers ever, commonly put in the top 2 HWs ever. He had the longest HW reign + the most defensses.

    Joe Walcott & Archie Moore were great boxers but not at the same level. All were boxers, Louis a boxer/slugger. None were swarmers that tend to burn out early. ALL had hard, busy boxing lives. I am not using Ezzard Charles just because he was a little younger.

    Joe Walcott did not have adequate training & was sometimes undernourished when he should have been in his prime years.
    Does anyone think he could have been as great as Lewis IF properly handled & fed in his prime years? That he DID decline as much as Louis, however we never saw him at his True Peak because his best physical years were eviscerated?

    I am skeptical. Louis depended on superb reflexes which declined, the fact that his top dominance depended upon this could be cited.
    BUT his right hand ALSO declined.
    power should be the last to go in a fighter, many guys retain top power much later.

    Marciano said he was told Louis had lost power in his right, but said he did not expect that his right hand would be "nothing".

    Sure being away from boxing for ~ 3 1/2 years would make you rusty, but should it not save wear & tear too?
    And Joe said the last time he felt like himseelf was against Moralles in 1946.

    He also stayed in shape...So WHY, since no wars seemed to cause the decline & he was no swarmer...Did he even lose his right hand young?

    He just declined MORE from his vaunted perch than would be expected from a boxer with his history, style, & build.
    Hand speed AND power.

    Why?
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Two reasons.

    1. Prety much half of his fights, were against current top 10 ranked opponents.
    2. His style was not the best suited to longevity.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Louis was bait. He spent his whole career trying to trick people into thinking it was safe to punch him. And when he lost that top two or three percent it became safe to punch him. Disaster. He's made a career out of being available for punches and how does he adjust? The jab was extraordinary and it propped him up a bit but it was never going to be enough.
     
  4. Phil_Ivey_76

    Phil_Ivey_76 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's not true!

    Lewis was one of the best 35+ yo old ever.

    Wlad
    Lewis
    Vitaly
    Walcott
    Ali
    Louis
    Holmes
    Holyfeild
    Foreman
    Witherspoon

    Who can add or rearange this list? Could be argued Lewis was #1
     
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    1. He spent almost his entire career fighting elite opponents which will kill anyone over time.

    2. His game was centered on throwing fast combinations which relied on sharp reflexes and heavy output. Something that is generally gone by age 35.

    3. Taking a few years off from the game during the war years helped his body to rest but also dulled his skills..
     
  6. Phil_Ivey_76

    Phil_Ivey_76 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    When you say "Joe Louis" you don't pronounce the "s" on the end.

    My dad taught me that. It's a French name.
     
  7. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It seems biased to pick only Moore and Walcott as both men were noted for their longevity. Tons of guys born in the same decade as Louis were done about the same time he was.

    Jimmy Bivins was 5 years younger, yet was finished as a top contender within a year of louis. Billy Conn was 3 years younger and retired the same year as Louis ( the first time). Charley Burley; same age as Conn retired 1950. Tony Zale was a year older and he retired in 1948. Holman Williams a Louis sparring partner, last fight 1948. John Henry Lewis was born the same year and he stopped way, way earlier.

    So really the question does not make sense. You shouldn't be asking why Louis was done early but rather why Moore and Walcott lasted so long (and I know Walcott didn't last that much longer but he's still rather unique).
     
  8. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Thanks gentleman, some good answers/
    Little Red, I just picked the very best that fought around the same age then. But it is fair to say both that they were noted for longevity-Walcott mor for excelling late in his career, & also that the very BESt in any sport tend to last longer because they are so good to begin with.

    I think he lost more than 2-3% (in I presume you mean speed), but the point is well taken. Those he fought & relying on fast reflecxes are a good point.
    Though I naver thought of him as a high output fighter, despite throwing lightning fast combinations, much was stalking time.

    The mysery of why he lost power in the right hand remiains.
    I understand it was speed rather than numbing muscle power like a Foreman, but still I would think that would decline less than it did.
     
  9. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I think Joe Louis pronounced the "s".
     
  10. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fact is every human ages differently, Louis looked an old man in his late 30's.
     
  11. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Yeah, he only held the title for 12 years. :lol:
     
  12. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    If it wasn't for Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis might have been able to regain the title. Walcott-Louis in 1951 or '52 would be a 50-50 fight. As for Ezzard Charles, he was slipping already, and he probably beat the worst version of Louis so a rematch between those two wouldn't be a foregone conclusion either.

    Of course, Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott had much greater motivation to excel in their late 30s.

    Years of massive celebrity and pugilistic success is a major factor. Golf, gambling, girls were Louis's weaknesses. Nobody stays a hungry fighter forever, unless they are literally hungry and under-rewarded (as well as intensely self-motivated).
    What Joe Louis had done was unprecedented.
     
  13. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    no. he was finished once it was knowledge that he could last 15 rounds anymore, despite having way superior skills to rocky, you could always outgass him.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Louis was one of those fighters who matured quickly and aged a little sooner than most. Joe depended on speed to generate his power. Hand speed diminishes with age and really drops off in the late 30’s. Once his hand speed went, he wasn't the same fighter. I still think he was a decent fighter past his 35th birthday.
     
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Louis had a fairly lengthy prime, actually.