Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills, the timeline

Ring Magazine, Newspapers consensus, rtc

Wills officially earned his undisputed number 1 contender status when he knocked out Fulton in 1920. He did nothing to lose that ranking up until 1926. You can argue his ridiculous DQ loss to Tate cost him his number 1 rating for a period of a couple months but he quickly regained it back when he knocked out kid Norfolk in a title eliminator

Ring magazine confirmed this with there 1924 and 1925 rankings with wills as number 1


In my opinion wills should have been number 1 as early as 1915, after defeating the three outstanding contenders Langford McVea and Jeanette. But apparently Fulton got the credit for beating Harry Wills leftover

 

Why don't you tell us how Fulton was underrated there, if film ever came out on Fulton I know you would be very disappointed in his skill level. Compton has Film of Fulton, Fulton didn't even fight tall and use his height according to him.

 

Wills was the standout for only three years??? What a load of horse****. He was the leading contender at least as early as his victory over Fred Fulton and he got that fight with Fred Fulton because he was considered a top contender. People want to act like the Bill Tate fights hindered his standing but they didnt. Pure and simple. If those had such an impact on his standing why was invited to fight another elimination bout 2 months later, which he won by 2 round KO? The only people who thought that did anything to his standing where the ones who didnt want him to get a shot to begin with and those only had a two month window in which to ***** and moan over two results that were at worst inconclusive against a fighter Wills had beaten numerous times already.

Another thing is the timeline above stating Dempsey signed to fight Wills in 1922. That simply isnt true. Go back and read the articles that Dempsey signed. Dempsey signed a contract stating that he WOULD agree to fight Wills for an undetermined amount, at an undetermined location, on an undetermined date IF a promoter could come up with a REASONABLE offer. This left the window open for Dempsey and company to simply refuse all offers as unreasonable which is what happened. This is why the NYSAC barred a Dempsey-Wills bout later in principle because William Muldoon had an ongoing battle against commercialism in boxing which he reasoned was ruining the sport (the effects of which we see today) he was trying to institute caps on ticket prices, purses, in order to keep the sport more pure. Rickard seized on this and simply pretended the fight would be held in New York and would cost a fortune and the commission stepped in to stop it. Those "articles" Dempsey signed were seen by most as the ruse they actually were in order to kick the can a little further down the road. Can you imagine if Floyd Mayweather had signed an "agreement" to "to sign" to fight Pac at "some place" at "some time" for "some money" as long as he got a "reasonable" offer?? People would have seen it for what it was: bull****.

Another point is Dempsey supposedly announcing his retirement in 1925. Dempsey only announced his retirement because at this point he and Doc Kearns were feuding and Dempsey wanted out. Dempsey's plan was to retire until the contract ended in 1926 which would allow him to revive his career without having to split anything Kearns. This lead to a prolonged legal battle between the two that lasted the rest of the year. Ask yourself why Dempsey would agree to fight Wills in 1925 after supposedly retiring? Because he had no intention of retiring but at this point the commission had demanded that he sign to fight or be stripped of the title. Dempsey was making a ****load of money on that title without even fighting so he needed to keep it. In order to appease the commission Dempsey got his close friend, promoter Floyd Fitzsimmons to pretend to stage a fight between Wills and Dempsey a year later. Yet Dempsey had already told Rickard he wouldnt fight for anyone but Rickard and had already entered into negotiations with him and agreed in principle to a fight with Gene Tunney to be held within a couple of weeks of the supposed Wills fight that Fitzsimmons was supposedly promoting. The timing of this is very important because it bought Dempsey some time and kept the NYSAC off his back while he maneuvered and kept Kearns at bay. There are two seperate stories that came out about the supposed Wills-Dempsey fight promoted by Fitz. One was that Wills got $50,000 for signing for this fight. Wills denied this. Another was that Dempsey paid that $50,000 out of his own pocket. A couple of months later Dempsey's business manager split with him and announced that Dempsey never had any intention of fighting Wills. Dempsey himself walked away from the fight when one of his payments wasnt met by Fitzsimmons and publicly acted like he was angry with Fitz yet just a month or two later Fitz went to California and spent the winter as a guest at Dempsey's house and they remained friends the rest of their lives. Odd and convenient that Dempsey would sign a contract with his friend to fight Wills and then when that friend cant make the payment Dempsey can simply walk away from a fight he had been avoiding for 5-6 years. Anyway by the time winter was over Dempsey had already signed for Tunney. Tunney, for his part, had put out challenges to Wills in 1925 but later it was admitted in court that he never had any intention of actually fighting Wills and that this was done to get his name in the press and "show up" Wills, and to get people thinking of him as a top contender for Dempsey. Just before the first Dempsey-Tunney fight Tunney went on record with a great deal of false indignation claiming that since Wills had refused to fight him (in a fight he never intended to take part in) and because Wills was trying to get an injunction to block the Dempsey-Tunney fight, that he would draw the color line and never give Wills a shot if he won the title. As it stood the NYSAC was fed up with Dempsey'ss shinnanigans and refused to allow the fight to be held in New York (as Tunney had dearly hoped) and instead Rickard was forced to promote the fight Philadelphia.

Isnt it interesting the games these guys played?

 

Yes, interesting.
What about Wills' management ? What games were they playing ?

 

It was worth while you posting it and I appreciate,I'm just pointing out it grossly overstates Wills case. Plus it lists him as 6'5" The November ko by Langford happened in spite of Sam injuring his ankle early in the fight ,the photo shows a tubby Langford at190lbs.
Referee: George Blake

• Langford defends World Colored Heavyweight Championship claim.

"With a left swing to the jaw, Sam Langford of Boston knocked out Harry Wills, the giant New Orleans negro, in the fourteenth round of a scheduled twenty-round fight this afternoon at Vernon. Both men were knocked down repeatedly, Langford himself taking the count four times in the first two rounds. Langford early in the fight hurt his left ankle as he fell to the mat in a vicious breakaway. Wills' effective straight-arm drives gave him an apparent even break in most of the rounds, but Langford fought with a superior knowledge of the game that gradually wore out Wills. As the soreness left Langford's injured ankle, his footwork improved and the twelfth, thirteenth and fourteenth rounds showed Langford winning. His speed, judgment and force then enabled him to play with Wills. The final swing was delivered after a torrent of blows had left Wills staggering." Indianapolis

Referee: George Blake

• Langford defends World Colored Heavyweight Championship claim.

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There were telegrams sent between Rickard and Dempsey in early 1926 that suggest that Dempsey wanted Wills or was considering Wills, preferring that to Tunney, and Rickard was the obstacle.
In the end, Dempsey trusted Rickard more than anyone at that point in time.
But Rickard was wrong about Tunney, and wrong about New York.

 

There were no universally recognized ranking systems before 1924.
In fact there weren't any at all.
I'm willing to give Wills three years as the outstanding contender and I've never denied he deserved his shot,but you are ludicrously over egging the pudding.

 

Lets see these telegrams.

 

J, timing is everything in boxing as well as life...

 

3 years?????

Please I would love to hear who the number 1 contender was every year from 1920-1926 If it wasn't wills?

 

I haven't mentioned Bill Tate once.
Please post the years you think Wills was the number one contender and we can debate them.
Without the horse sh*t.
The rest of your post is just raving indignation about subjects I haven't addressed ie. Tunney ,and Dempsey not fighting Wills.