Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills, the timeline

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Aug 4, 2015.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well there are certain foes he is never overcoming. But Dempsey sometimes gets shortended because he only defended against the (probably very sick) version when actually he had beaten the not sick version. The draw on Boxrec seems inaccurate, Dempsey seems to have got the better of that fight.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon.

    Napoleon Bonaparte
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, he's French.
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    He's Corsican.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    **** off you.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This was your opening line:

    Wills was the standout for only three years??? What a load of horse****. He was the leading contender at least as early as his victory over Fred Fulton and he got that fight with Fred Fulton because he was considered a top contender.
    Since I was the one who said he was the leading contender for 3 years it was a logical assumption that you were referring to me. BTW. I am not a Dempsey apologist I have stated my position regarding Dempsey and a Wills match.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He's dead.:verysad
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Those trees he planted along French roadways are still killing dozens a year.

    Dempsey himself said he would fight the winner of Wills-Fulton in 1920... so much so that he sat ringside for the match. He also said he hoped for a hard fought draw so he could fight them both. Seems like Wills was pretty legit. And after he put a hole through Fulton's chest, Dempsey's rabble seemed to quiet.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I wrote a lengthy response then inadvertedly wiped it.:fire

    1920
    Jack Thompson no contest, both purses withheld.
    Jack Thompson w15.
    Andy Johnson 2-4-0 wko1 .
    Langford w15. Langford was 37 years old and had lost to Bill Tate ,drawn with 1-0-0 George Godfrey lost to Lee Anderson
    12-7-7 and lost to Jack Thompson16-7-7 that year.
    He was past his sell by date.
    Ray Bennet wtko 1-0-0.bennett's purse with held
    According to the Bridgeport Telegram 'Bennett's showing was so poor that no word adequate to describe it can be found in any language or dialect.' After the bout it was announced that Bennett would be forever banned from fighting in New England and that he would not be payed, while boxing commissioners expressed their doubts whether the man in the ring, who had gone down at the slightest provocation, had been Bennett at all. As the Telegram did not explicitly report that Wills was declared the winner, there is a chance that the result was a No Contest.


    Fred Fulton wko3 .Fulton had been kod by Dempsey in23seconds earlier.
    Sam McVey A fake fight both banned from boxing inPhiladelphia ever again.
    The referee stopped the bout, claiming the two were stalling. Both boxers then were barred from boxing again in Philadelphia


    Jeff Clark wtko 4rds. Clark was 34 and washed up.He had won just 3 of his last 12 fights and would lose his next 4.
    That's 1920
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A lot of good points raised on both sides so far, but we are getting deeper into peoples interpretations.

    My purpouse in starting this thread, was to put the known facts into context, by puting them in date order.

    Can we add anything to that?
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    1921`
    Bill Tate w ko2 .Dempsey's sparring partner.
    Jeff Clark wtko Clark still 34, and still washed up.
    Jack Thompson w nws. 18-7-5.
    Andy Johnson wko1 2-5-0.
    Battling Jim McCrean wko7 8-5-1.
    Ray Bennet wko1. Bennett now 1-1-0.
    Bill Tate wtko6 . 15-13-0.
    GunBoat Smith w ko1 Smith was totally shot and having his last fight,["I just went down for the boat ride"].
    Denver Ed Martin wko1. Ditto Martin, last fight and 40 years old.
    Jack Thompson the old playmate ,fell to the floor claiming a foul.
    The referee stopped the fight without rendering a decision after Thompson fell to the floor claiming a foul had been committed. Date: Thursday, December 1, 1921 Paper: Denver Post (Denver, CO) Page: 22
    l Bill Tate w12 foul. Tate now 15-14- -0
    That's 1921
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    1922
    Bill Tate L dsq.
    Bill Tate Draw.
    Sam Langford w10. Langford one month off 39 years old and fighting by Braille.
    Jeff Clark wtko2 .Clark now 36 and totally washed up having won 5 of last 18 fights and 3 fights away from retirement.Clark was described as being kod by a punch no one saw.
    Buddy Jackson. w .1-1-0 mis match.
    Tut Jackson w ko3 An investigation was held after this one.
    Clem Johnson w tko1. 2 10-11-2.
    That's 1922!
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    1923
    Homer Smith wko2 . 29-11-0.
    Jack Thompson wtko4 Old Jack,[ now 20-10-5 ,]yet again!
    That Year Went Quick!

    1924
    Bartley Madden w15. respectable win.
    Luis Firpo w12 .Wills won going away but failed to excite the fans.Firpo was flabby and 8.5lbs heavier than when he had fought Dempsey a year earlier Dempsey had stopped him in2 rds dropping him multiple times but being floored a couple of times himself.

    1925
    Charley Weinert wko2 35-7-1. good win over a clever boxer
    Floyd Johnson wko1. Johnson was banned after this fight.

    Dempsey lost his title on27th September 1926..
    Will was dsq'd against Jack Sharkey on the 12th of October 1926


    NOW WHICH YEARS DOES WILLS RESUME INDICATE HE WAS THE NUMBER ONE CONTENDER?
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Here's a question: why didn't Wills do what Greb did and seek and destroy all Dempsey contenders? It's been rightly said that Wills fought weak opposition for the most part during Dempsey's reign and it's been rightly said that Dempsey should have met Wills without his having to take on the best - but why did the white Greb seek out and destroy all Dempsey contenders while Wills treaded water?

    If Wills had destroyed Gibbons and Brennan...well he at least gets the Greb a shot doesn't he? :lol:

    Seriously though. What kept Wills from forcing this issue? His bad hands? An unexplained surety that he WOULD get the shot as opposed to SHOULD? The former seems possible, that latter naive...thoughts?
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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