Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills, the timeline

Apparently, he became quite a bitter, old drunk in later days, something the Cavanaugh book doesn't touch with a ten foot pole.

As for him being a racist, I'm not sure how much I really care beyond him not fighting opponents that were black. I certainly don't look to him for my thoughts on such subjects and I doubt I would have liked to have a drink with him. I find Dempsey the much more likeable of that pair.

 

Is it true that if you touch a "blackie," the colour comes off on your skin?

 

I agree.

That was the starting point of my comments, the way Tunney and (even more so) Loughran went entire careers without fighting a black boxer, apparently in part out of a warped sense of honour, in their racist reasoning. I sense that they genuinely thought it legitimate to refuse to fight blacks and that they held those views from early on. Tunney probably tried to "intellectualize" it. Which I find contemptible.

Dempsey is far less problematic, if he drew the colour line it was sheer opportunism in one way or another. He fought black fighters, he sparred black fighters. If he ducked some, it was just a duck given the 'color line' spin or he opportunistically pandered to the 'color line cause'.

The Cavanaugh book is too in love with its subject, as is Kahn's Dempsey book.

 

How many top American boxers born after 1905 didn't fight blacks during their careers? There are a number of top American boxers born after 1894 and before 1906 who didn't fight blacks.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Loughran is more interesting, as his record clearly shows a fighter who was always willing to take tough fights. There actually weren't that many quality black fighters around his size that you can say he really should have faced. Tiger Flowers perhaps? There was never a Harry Wills figure looming over him.

 

I still find it puzzling that Tommy Loughran didn't fight any black opponents, especially during the 1930s. With the exception of Loughran and Young Stribling, are there other top American fighters who never fought any black opponents while being active after 1929? Top white fighters who drew the colorline in all cases were becoming a dying breed afterwards.

- Chuck Johnston

 

You dont have to buy it, nearly everyone else did during Dempsey's reign. What some agenda driven dope from 100 years later who doesnt have a firm grasp on the history of the time (and who really knows better but wants to play devils advocate) posts on a forum in 2015 doesnt mean jack ****). For instance, lets take Kid Norfolk, your pathetic timeline begins in 1922 (and for the record Norfolk didnt fight Greb in 1922) and ends in 1924. Did Dempsey, who DID duck Norfolk, only have a two year career? Maybe you should cast your net a little wider...

In 1919

In early 1919 Dempsey tries to hire Harry Wills as a sparring partner for his training camp for Willard. Dempsey and Kearns are congratulated on their choice of sparring partners by the press saying that Wills is much cleverer than Willard and almost as big. Wills declines the offer stating that he intends to challenge the winner.

Wills challenges Dempsey.

July 5, 1919 Jack Dempsey draws the color line specifically in reference to Harry Wills. "His statement that he has drawn the color line means that Jack will pay no attention to any challenges which might come from Harry Wills who is just now the king pin of the black heavyweights."

Late 1919 Washington Post lists Wills and Fulton as the two fighters most likely to defeat Dempsey.

In 1920

Early 1920 Wills is listed as a "black cloud" "looming athwart the course of the white
heavyweights." He challenges any who stand in his way to a match with Dempsey. Fred Fulton and Frank Moran are scheduled to face each other with the winner to face Wills for the right to fight Dempsey.

Fulton wins and a fight with Wills is talked of but Fulton does not seem overly eager.

In June of 1920 Tex O'Rourke releases a top twenty list which has Dempsey and Fulton tied at #1 (O'Rourke is a matchmaker for Tex Rickard and is at present managing Fulton in hopes of building him up as an opponent for Dempsey, Sam Langford #2 and Wills #3. Wills had defeated Langford in

November of the previous year and again in April and would defeat Fulton the following month.

Fulton finally agrees to terms late June.

A report hits the wires that Dempsey would drop his refusal to fight blacks and face Harry Wills if he beat Fulton. Dempsey quickly denies this and says he has no intention of fighting Wills.

Wills fights elimination bout with Fulton, winning by KO and breaking several of Fultons ribs in the process.

Dempsey complains bitterly about Wills' victory stating "The result was just the opposite of what I wanted. I was rooting for Fred to win, and the fact that he lost means probably $100,000 to me. If he had done what Wills had done, and he should have done it, he would be a tremendous attraction again, and I would have whipped him again as easily as I did that afternoon at Harrison."

JJimmy Shevlin took a contingent from Ohio to New Jersey to see the fight and all of them stated that Wills would be a stumbling block for Dempsey.

Within 24 hours of Wills knocking out Fulton Dempsey signs to fight Miske. Newspapers are quick to note that Miske was the recent inhabitant of a hospital bed and had already been defeated by Dempsey.

Bill Penhallegon writing for the Decatur Herald referred to the Miske fight as "a so-called title bout" "Miske has been out of the ring for over a year on account of illness and for a time was thought he would never be able to box again. He says he has left his illness well behind him and believes he can give the champion a run for the title but it looks like Dempsey has picked a soft one" "Harry Wills stands forth today as the real contender for Dempsey's heavyweight crown."

Arthur Duffy of the Boston Post says that Wills is "just about as good as they make em in the fight game these days" and that it would be no cinch for Dempsey if they ever met.

Willie Meehan picks Harry Wills to defeat Dempsey and states that if they ever meet Wills will be the next HW champion "Why? Because Wills hits the harder of the two, is the bigger man, and is the better boxer."

The Boston Post reports that a friend of Jack Kearns stated Kearns was trying to arrange a

bout for Dempsey in Boston. The probably opponent would be John Lester Johnson. The friend added that Dempsey would meet any fighter, white or black, except Wills. This plan was dropped and Gunboat Smith replaced Johnson. When this was met with scorn (and after Greb knocked Smith out) Bartley Madden was substituted by Kearns as the patsy for Dempsey but Boston eventually refused to sanction Madden as an opponent. They then tried Bill Brennan and Brennan was refused as well so Dempsey was arranged to meet Brennan in New York.

Louis Dougher writing for the Washington Times states that Wills is Dempsey's logical challenger and would beat Smith, Brennan, and Miske as easily as Dempsey.

Charles Mathison says that Wills is the only fighter that the public would concede could give Dempsey a chance.

Bob Edgren (who doesnt believe in mixed race bouts) states that if Wills continues to beat Dempsey's opponents Dempsey will be forced to quit boxing and become a full time actor. He states that a Dempsey Wills bout would be great and adds that Dempsey Miske is a mismatch.

1920 the AP releases another of the earliest top ten lists Ive ever seen, it is compiled by

Kid McCoy, advocating a rating system It ranks Dempsey 1 at HW and Wills 2.

The New York Evening Telegram holds a mail poll to see if the fans want to see Dempsey-Wills. 93% of the letters recieved by fans want to see a Dempsey-Wills contest.

Ted Hooks, in discussing the Fulton-Wills contest, says Wills has won the right to fight Dempsey.

The Kansas City Sun says that Wills rates with Sullivan, Peter Jackson, Jeffries, Corbett, Fitz and Jack Johnson and is the only logical contender for Dempsey.

Thomas Rice states that by his victory over Fulton Wills "has brought the question of color back into boxing" intimating that Wills, like Jackson and Johnson before has now become the outstanding challenger for Dempsey.

The Chicago Tribune, commenting on Dempsey-Brennan and the allegations that Dempsey is ducking Wills states that while they do not believe Dempsey fears Wills he is certainly looking for easier game.

 

In 1921

New York Evening Telegram runs an article entitled: "Dempsey Now Has No Alibi For Ignoring Wills."

Harry Newman writes an article titled: "Dempsey Not Real World Champion Until He Settles Claim of Harry Wills." He goes on to detail how Dempsey has been avoiding Wills in favor of "the frail Carpentier" and how there is no excuse not to face Wills. He adds that it would be a huge gate.

Charles Mathison of the NY Herald called Wills Dempsey's ablest challenger.

Frank Menke named Wills Dempsey's outstanding challenger.

Ed Hughes calls Harry Wills one of the greatest fighters in the ring and says he is the only man who can furnish Dempsey with a test.

Sam Ellis of the Jacksonville Metropolis says that whites and blacks should not meet in the ring anymore than they do in society but adds that Harry Wills is probably the best fighter in the ring today.

Sam Greene of Beaumon Texas Enterprise picks Wills as Dempsey's outstanding challenger.

Nat Fleischer says: The best man in the field at present is Harry Wills, who probably would knock out Dempsey and Carpentier. All the topnotch heavyweights have barred Wills because the negro outclasses the field in cleverness and heavy hitting. He undoubtedly would score a knockout over Gibbons. (I bet "Bert" hates to read this).

WC McMullan, writing for the Hamilton Ontario Spectator lists Wills as Dempsey's top challenger.

Kenneth Todd of the Houston Chronicle names Wills Dempsey's top contender.

Reed Heustis of the LA Herald names Wills Dempsey's top challenger.

The Sporting News names Wills Dempsey's top challenger.

Harry Williams of the Los Angeles Times names Wills Dempsey's biggest threat.

W H Van Natta of the Wichita Falls Record-News rated Wills next to Dempsey in the HW class.

In 1922

Henry Farrell states that Dempsey didnt fight in 1922 because Wills was the only available opponent for him.

Wills defeats Kid Norfolk in a bout promoted by Tex Rickard as an elimination contest to face Dempsey.

Kearns acknowledges that Wills is Dempsey's only rival.

Damon Runyon writes that Wills is Dempsey's logical challenger and the one that that most will accept more than any other.

Harry Keck says Wills stands out as the best of the current challengers.

Jack Skelly of the New York Morning Telegraph says that Wills is the toughest proposition for Dempsey.

Fred Keats writes an article entitled "Only Easy Money For Dempsey: Instead of Battling Harry Wills Champion Fills His Schedule With Second Rate Opponents"

The New York Daily News has a write in campaign where the public can write in and pick the best contender for Dempsey. Wills wins by a landslide.

Bob Edgren, who doesnt believe that white fighters should fight black fighters, states that Wills is possibly the only fighter in the country who can give Dempsey a battle.

Harry Newman asks who there is to fight Dempsey if not Wills. He wonders if the public will put up with another fiasco like Carpentier or Willard.

Boxing Blade says that Wills is the man the public wants to see Dempsey fight and said that if the public would pay $1,000,000 to see how long Carpentier could last with Dempsey what would they pay
for a contest where the title might change hands? The Blade predicted it would be one of the greatest contests in history before the largest crowd of all time.

George Underwood calls Wills the only logical contender for Dempsey and states that Wills would give Dempsey "the fight of his life" and produce one of the greatest contests in the history of the
sport. "Harry Wills is the man whom the great American sporting public want to see crawl through the ropes against Dempsey."

William Muldoon, despite an aversion to mixed race bouts, says that a Dempsey-Wills bout would be a much greater attraction than Dempsey-Carpentier. He also calls Wills Dempsey's great rival.

The New York Daily News has a full page feature on Wills in their Sunday paper June 4.

The New York Daily News has another full page feature on Wills in their Sunday paper March 12. "Today fans the country over regard him as the one logical candidate to dispute Jack Dempsey's claim
to the heavyweight championship of the world."

Manager John O'Brien and Francis Albertanti get into a heated argument at the Garden when O'Brien enters the press room saying that he hopes Dempsey never fights Wills because hed hate to see him lose and Dempsey would be a baby in Wills' arms.

Hugh Fullerton called Wills Dempsey's black shadow and says Dempsey is avoiding Wills.

Tex Rickard estimates that a Dempsey-Wills bout would draw 100,000 people at the gate.

James Dawson says that Wills is Dempsey's foremost challenger. In the same article Kearns is quoted as saying "I am satisfied that there is a public demand for a bout between Dempsey and Wills."

WO McGheehan Pens an article saying that the public demands a Dempsey-Wills fight and that Dempsey needs to fight Wills.

Bill Peet reprints the article in his own paper, agrees, and says that if Dempsey wants to fight worthy contenders he needs to fight Wills.

Upon returning from Europe Dempsey says everyone in Europe thinks Wills is the man he should defend against.

NYSAC orders Dempsey to defend against Wills as the "best available challenger" They maintained this description of Wills until he lost to Jack Sharkey four and half years later.

Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills sign an agreement to fight within sixty days of a promoter making a bonifide offer. The articles have no date, no pay details, no location, and no particulars whatsoever. In fact there are no particulars about the fight whatsoever. Dempsey later admits in 1977 that the articles were written in such a manner as to allow Dempsey to back out of them without retribution by from the commission.

Offers flow in from 1922 through 1925 from locations as far flung as france, to montreal, Cuba, New Orleans, Los Angeles, and Tijuana. Monetary offers for Dempsey are as high as an unheard of $1mil. Dempsey and Kearns refuse to acknowledge all offers.

Joe Vila says that Dempsey is afraid to fight Wills.

Boxing Blade calls Wills the leading challenger for Dempsey.

Billy Rocap says that Dempsey is not keen on a bout with Wills. He says Wills possesses a combination of size, strength, skill, and power that non of Dempsey's previous challengers have shown.

 

In 1923

Early 1923 Kearns admits that Wills is accepted as Dempsey's best challenger and promises the best bout.

Just before facing Homer Smith Firpo tells the press that he would rather wait to fight Dempsey, not reeling ready yet and admits that Wills is the more popular choice to face the champion.

Davis J Walsh calls Wills Dempsey's best challenger. Later he says he hopes Dempsey will defend against a real challenger, hopefully Wills. In another article he says Wills has first claim on Dempsey.

Regis Welsh states that Firpo looks like a soft touch for Dempsey. He states that Wills would be a better match for Dempsey than Gibbons, Firpo, or Willard ever were.

George Underwood calls Wills Dempsey's logical contender just before Dempsey fights Firpo, stating that it has become apparent that Dempsey will never get into the ring with Wills. Prior to signing with Firpo Underwood predicted accurately that Kearns would come to New York feigning interest in a Wills fight and then sign to fight a lesser opponent like Firpo.

Prior to fighting Firpo Wills files for an injunction preventing Dempsey from facing anyone but him under the Walker law. The judge declines go honor the injunction and Dempsey immediately states that he will never face Wills.

Joe Vila, in discussing Kearns constant refusal of all offers for a Wills bout decides that Kearns is afraid Dempsey will get beaten by Wills.

Uppercut, writing for the Chicago Tribune says Wills is growing older day by day "with very little encouragement from the Dempsey camp to cheer him up. We dont mean to imply that Wills might walk roughshod over Jack, but the mob is still clamoring for a battle between the two big boys. The popular clamor however apparently doesnt sound any too sweet in the ears of the champion and his dapper manager."

FairPlay lists Wills as Dempsey's best challenger

Senator James J. Walker, author of the Walker Law which legalized boxing in New York threatened to repeal the law if Wills was prevented a shot at Dempsey.

Doc Kearns, after a conference with Tex O'Rourke, called a press conference and asked the assembled newspapermen who they thought was Dempsey's logical contender. They all answered Wills to man. Kearns agreed.

Regis Welsh says Wills is being kept away from the title, that he is too tough and too black for Dempsey or any of the other hopefulls.

William E. Clark of the New York Age states that Wills is Dempsey's foremost challenger and that Dempsey has used every subtrefuge to avoid him.

In 1924

Norman Brown calls Wills the perennial black challenger.

Wills fights elimination bout with Firpo, winning. It is the third largest gate in history at that time.

Ed Hughes, answering a question from a letter from a reader as to whether or not Dempsey is afraid to fight Wills answers that he cannot say for certain and that while he is friendly with Dempsey he says he believes Dempsey has "GREAT RESPECT" for Wills and believes that Dempsey thinks Wills will give him his hardest contest. He adds that if Dempsey retires without having ever fought Wills then certainly he would have no doubt that Dempsey had always been scared of Wills as the bout would have netted him more than a million dollars. He notes that Dempsey has had MANY MANY offers to fight Wills but turned them all down yet jumped at the chance to fight Carpentier, Firpo, Gibbons etc.

Wills fights Bartley Madden in what some call an elimination. It is dubbed so because Dempsey and Kearns had been trying to get Madden approved as an opponent all over the country without success. The press said Madden was standing in Wills' way. Wills dominated Madden easily. Two years later Madden would say that simply going the distance with Wills was the greatest moment of his professional career.

The Philadelphia Inquirer said that by defeating Firpo Wills had proved conclusively his right to challenge Dempsey.

Joe Vila stated that just prior to the Wills-Firpo bout Dempsey "declared privately that he had made up his mind to ignore Wills challenges and to retire from the ring if a suitable white opponent could not 'built up'. Vila adds that a Dempsey-Wills bout would be very interesting and says it would exceed $1,000,000. "No one familiar with boxing will deny that Wills is Dempsey's most formidible antagonist.

The Brooklyn Daily Eagle editorialized that Wills was the only fighter in sight capable of challenging Dempsey.

The New York Evening Journal states that Wills is entitled to his shot at Dempsey.

The New York Age states that Wills is the only fighter who will have a chance with Dempsey.

Tom S. Andrews states that the winner of the Firpo-Wills fight will be the logical contender for Dempsey.

E.W. ****erson stated: Harry Wills fought a great fight against Firpo and clearly outboxed him while performing like a "master artist of the game" He stated that "his defeat of Firpo makes him appear by far the most dangerous man Dempsey has had as a rival since he came into the championship."

 

In 1925

W.O. McGheehan said of Wills:

"He is still a dark cloud hovering over the peace of mind of Jack Dempsey and others. In fact, Harry seems a little more threatening than ever."

The NYSAC gives Dempsey 24 hours to explain why he has persistently denied the challenge of Wills.

Joe Vila says Dempsey once again sidesteps Wills, hoping that Weinert will defeat him.

Regis Welsh calls Wills Dempsey's leading contender.

Harry Wills is rated by Everlast Boxing Record Book as Dempsey's top challenger.

Feg Murray writes a sarcastic article lampooning Dempsey's refusal to fight Wills and saying that Wills has been his persistent challenger since July 4, 1919. He jokes that Dempsey is once again trying to revive a Gibbons fight as "safe and satisfactory."

March, Dempsey is given six months to sign to fight Wills by the NYSAC or be stripped, Wills' challenge of Dempsey is to be given precedence over anyone else. When Dempsey finally answers the commission he states he doesnt want to fight Wills until "next year" and that he wants one or two warm up bouts first.

Almost six months to the day the commission issues this edict Dempsey signs to fight Wills under the promotional banner of his close friend Floyd Fitzsimmons. The hitch is he refuses to fight Wills until late 1926, he wants one or two warm up fights first and a large advance before he goes through with the fight. Floyd Fitzsimmons meets with Chicago press and asks who they would like to see against Dempsey as a warmup. Harry Greb is selected unanimously as Dempsey's opponent. Greb, who is west taking part in fights, immediately leaves for Chicago to sign for the fight.He is still two states away when Dempsey releases a press statement that he will not fight again in 1925 and certainly not against Greb. Dempsey is, by now, handling his own affairs, having effectively split from Kearns and yet still is using the same tactics Kearns used in 1922/23 to avoid Wills' challenge.

When a "payment" is missed by Fitzsimmons Dempsey immediately says the fight is off and feigns disgust with Fitzsimmons, yet later in the year Dempsey's business manager splits in disgust stating Dempsey never had any intention of facing Wills and the entire signing was staged to keep preserve Dempsey's championship. Court testimony in Gene Tunney's later trial with Tim Mara illustrates that Dempsey and Tunney had already agreed in principle to face one another and there was never any consideration for Wills to get his long earned title shot.

Several in the press seize upon the idea that Wills has been made a "****" by Dempsey in order to temporarily preserve the champions status. Another story comes out that the "signing bonus" provided to Wills was actually paid by Dempsey to further the ruse. Wills would deny that he ever even received a signing bonus.

The Brooklyn Daily Eagle states that Wills is Dempsey's best challenger and has been for at least 4 years.

In 1926

Wills takes part in an exhibition in Cleveland. The fans there hail him as the greatest HW theyve seen since Dempsey.

Nat Fleischer writes an article comparing Harry Wills to Peter Jackson and Jack Johnson's long attempts to gain a shot at the title. He questions whether Dempsey fears Wills and ends the article: "If ever a boxer has demonstrated his ability and convinced the public that he is entitled to championship consideration, Harry Wills is that man."

Harry Wills is rated by Everlast Boxing Record Book as Dempsey's top challenger.

By early 1926 Tex Rickard has solidified plans to bypass Wills and select Gene Tunney as an opponent. Both Dempsey and Tunney sign for the fight in secret. Once this gets out Wills files an injunction against Dempsey facing anyone else in the state of New York except him.

The courts agree with Wills and the NYSAC follows suit unanimously supporting Wills.

Gene Tunney writes an extremely critical letter about the governor (who had sided with Wills) to the New York Daily News which is heavily criticized by Paul Gallico who supports Wills. Tunney had formerly relied upon the governer for political influence but as soon as the governor supported deferred to Wills Tunney had no use for him and attacked him publicly.

When Rickard realizes that he will not be allowed to stage the Dempsey-Tunney bout in New York he moves it on short notice to Pennsylvania.

The lone African American member of the Pennsylvania Athletic Commission, Charles Fred White, protests Dempsey fighting anyone but Wills in the state. He is immediately removed from the commission by governor Pinchot.


In 1977 Dempsey said that when Sharkey defeated Wills he finally eliminated Wills from top contender status.

In 1979 Randy Roberts said that throughout Dempsey's reign Wills was always the number one contender.



These are just the notations I can quickley and easily find. Anyone who spends any time at all researching this era cant avoid being hit over the head with the fact that Wills is clearly, far and away considered Dempsey's top contender. To ignore that fact, as you clearly have, or to allege that he wasnt, is purely ridiculous asinine ineptitude. Sorry, but thats just how it is.

 

I don't doubt that Harry Wills was the top heavyweight contender during Jack Dempsey's reign as the champion. In his failed pursuit to get a title shot, Wills obviously had strong support from a fair number of sportswriters and some important people in the state of New York political circles. But did Wills receive overwhelming support from the public, the press and political figures throughout the United States? I have my doubts because it was a different period of time in the country.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Wow great stuff there klompton. I'll have more than enough info on wills Dempsey situation to quote your timeline in future debates


What Dempsey did was cowardly

 

The color line IS(WAS) racial.