Why Is Marciano Only, Credited With Cliched Assets?

I think you have a poor eye for evaluating ability in a fighter


Plenty of those fighters you mention get plenty of credit for having a huge heart

 

Hmm...Good question. Let me think about this. What do all of those others guys have in common? Something that differentiates them from Marciano? There must be something...

 

Those other fighters are great, truly great. If you want to see greatness from Marciano, watch Marciano Moore round 6. Watch it closely, simply incredible

 

I see Frazier credited with the same attributes, as well as Holyfield (Frazier more frequently these days).

It's necessary when heavyweights who don't pass the eye test achieve success and don't bring many other prototypical qualities to the table (that Holyfield was ever talked about as some kind of Rudy-esque underdog at a shredded 6'2.5, 210 was kinda funny, but there was a large opinion he was too small to be a great Heavyweight). I also think it's not entirely unfounded, because being an undersized brawler means you have no option but to bring other assets to the table and absorb punishment to win. There's no way to box around having a short shelf life with that style and those attributes.

It is, however, disingenuous to think that because fighters like Marciano and Frazier succeeded in spite of obvious shortcomings, that other, more gifted fighters didn't possess tons of heart, winning intangibles, and grit. It simply didn't need to be put on display as frequently because they had more tools to fall back on. The other great ones enjoyed much greater longevity because of it.

That said, if we're talking about pure conditioning, Marciano was insane. I don't see there being any hype, fluff, or racial undertones behind that one. That's not an intangible that can't really be measured; the dude really was a fitness beast. Likely the best example of that until Holyfield, though Frazier was excellent at wearing down his opposition as well.

 

Hate to break it to you but race affects how we perceive these kinds of subjective character traits and qualities. It's scientifically proven. Doesn't make anyone a terrible person or a meanspirited bigot--it is what it is.

Hundreds of boxers have great heart and many have overcome far greater adversity than Marciano.

 

Why are you being so touchy about this? The extremists who act like it's all about race are ridiculous but I don't know why we have to pretend that race is completely irrelevant here.

 

A big part of the equation is that Marciano retired undefeated though. Makes some fans think that he must have had truly mystical qualities to pull off such an amazing feat that nobody else has been able to accomplish.

 

Seriously, I've seen the exact qualities used to explain why Joe Frazier- an undersized, easy to hit, slow heavyweight with one great punch- would overcome those shortcomings to rule the division today.

If you don't give them credit for being exceptional in some areas, then it makes no sense how they ever won 10 fights, let alone carved out HOF careers for themselves. On paper, they had no business making it as far as they did. They're not the ones trainers are fighting with each other to get to first when they walk in the gym.

But, they accomplished great things in spite of that, and there had to be some extremely redeeming qualities to make that possible.

 

Wow. This one's really striking a nerve, huh? Didn't realize that you censor unpopular views on this forum.

But to your questions: why do you keep lumping heart and work rate? Two very, very different thing--one is objective, the other is far from it.