What's the highest we can reasonably rank Evander Holyfield at heavywieght?

I would put him between 10 and 15.

First of all, his victory over Bowe was the closest in that trilogy and Evander's victory was far from convincing. Bowe out landed him according to the punch stats, and then there was that whole fan man thing. A strange fight...in their other two fights Bowe clearly and obviously was the better man, because he was in shape.

Michael Moorer, an unfairly maligned fighter but not a great one either, took Evander's title. Yes, there was all that heart talk afterward, but whatever the story was, Holyfield let the title slip in a lackluster performance.

Then the struggles with guys like Bobby Czyz. And he wouldn't have even gotten his rematch with Lewis if not gifted the draw in the first fight.

And so there's the post-jail, post-Tokyo Tyson, king of the head cases, whom Evander got the better of twice. Impressive, yes...but I think Lewis, Bowe, and maybe even old Foreman could have done the same thing to Mike by that point.

And then the trail of tears: Ruiz, Byrd, Ibragimov, Toney, Donald...the losses piling up.

I will say this: Holyfield almost never took an easy fight. He was always getting in with name fighters and going to war. To me, he's not really top 10 material, but I know I'm probably in the minority.

 

Holyfield is an ATG per sure, but for me he is fringe top10 at the best

Reasons:
1) Too much of a dirty fighter
2) Too much sights of steroid abuse
3) Too much of a ridiculous "comeback"

Honestly, the more I think about it, the lower I rank Holyfield

 

He's absolutely in my top 5 for his accomplishments, physical attributes, versatility, and the fact that he would have been an incredibly tough opponent for any of the ATGs who preceded him. Very few losses anywhere near his prime. Bowe (which he at least partially avenged) and Lewis (when he was past his prime) were both formidable superheavies who would beat most ATGs head-to-head. He lost to Moorer because of his heart issues (and later avenged it). Less than a handful of heavies would have been as successful as he was against the stellar list of opponents he faced.

 

Another way to look at it: The three main rivals during the Holyfield era were Tyson, Lewis, and Bowe. Two out of three of them bested Holyfield. What I'm getting at is that Holyfield was never even the best of his own era...how is he going to be Top 5 all time? For one year after he knocked out Douglas, Holyfield was number 1 in the world....but look at who he defended against? Old Foreman, old Holmes, and journeyman Cooper, all of whom were extremely competitive against him.

After beating Tyson, I don't think many people really saw him as number one, as Lewis and Bowe were lurking. And when Holyfield finally got in with Lewis....he lost.

Why does this guy, who had a very shaky grasp on being number 1 in the world for about a year, rate so high?

 

That's fair but are there more than 5 heavyweights who you would pick to beat Lewis (even if they weren't past their primes, like Holyfield) and to go better than 1 of 3 against Bowe?

And how many of them would you pick over Holyfield, head to head?

And how many have the overall accomplishments of Holyfield? Even with the appropriate asterisks, Holmes, Tyson, Foreman, Moorer, Mercer, and Bowe (X1) are an awfully tough lineup.

 

I don't know off hand where I would put him,but I think holmes being 42/43 kind of puts a dent here for him since it was a competitive distance fight.tyson wasn't really all there and moorer was the weakest 90's recognized champ imop...looking back I would say Bowe is his best win obviously,but bowe himself has a weak resume.I actually think holyfield being outweighed by 50 or so pounds vs foreman was his best performance,foreman was no walk thru in 91 and holyfield had to hit that guy with everything just to keep him off him though he also had speed on his side.It all depends on where you actuall piut jhim at his best do you think the 205 holy was better than the bigger tougher one?And as some have stated was the peds mainly for his success?Looking past allegsations and strictly on performance,i have him around # 6.

 

All great points.

 

he's a bit of an anomaly.

fringe top-ten record wise, maybe, yet head to head, clearly, he could beat anybody.. ali and louis included.

the rare heavyweight great that you could actually classify as a boxer-puncher. him, charles.. maybe louis? but prime holyfield lead more than he counterpunched btw surely you know that about him by now. he would have cracked, say, prime foreman.

great boxer-puncher, with the chin and heart. no lower than #7.

 

Well he rates higher than Mike Tyson does that's for certain, to this day many still can't accept this fact, I see many on facebook rating Tyson as top 5 all time greatest p4p which I can only facepalm at. Holyfield was a great fighter and proved he was superior to Tyson but behind Lennox as Lewis knew how to use his incredible size to beat the small Holyfield. I also rate Holyfield as the gutsiest heavyweight in decades

 

LISTON at number three ??? wow...... is this the same guy who quitted twice against Clay and best win against much smaller Patterson ??? atsch

 

So where do I rate him ???? On resume higher than many at heavyweight but head to head in talent not as high as his resume (but both as I said higher than Tyson).... I think Johnson, Louis, Lewis, Marciano, Dempsey, Holmes (not by much), Ali and Foreman I have no problem saying they rank higher. Tunney ? I think p4p Tunney easily better but resume lower than Evander. Liston ? I think Sonny beats him head to head if he is serious but the guy who faced Ali has no chance against a fighter with Holyfield's heart (there are two Listons, before and after Clay). Holy beats Fitz due to being too big and slick for him, how does he go against some of the other champs ? realistically a fight between him and Charles would be stuff of legend, I rate Holy equal or close to Frazier but as for doing a definitive list I don't think that's realistic, it's too subjective and the division has gotten bigger and bigger, how does one compare Holy to the likes of Carnera and Willard and the Klits ???? well I am sure he beats the first two but the Klits ????? I am staying out of that one. as for resume I rate him higher than Liston...... who beats Holy in head to head fights ?... well Ali, Louis, Dempsey, Foreman, Lewis of course proved it, Marciano knocks Evander out, Johnson ? could go either way.... I would say overall maybe #10 to #12 is about where I rate him but it is subjective and opinion only. The truth is that Evander was one of my favourites in his day, I always told my mates I thought he could beat Tyson at least 6 months before Douglas beat Tyson. As for Buster Douglas, on that night he destroyed tyson's career and reputation I reckon he beats nearly every heavyweight ever including many of the biggest names such was his talent, a pity he couldn't keep his head together but I feel that his father had a lot to do with him being messed up in the head so bad.

 

Number 1 head to head. Dirtiest hw I've seen.

 

I tend to agree with a lot of this. Holy ticks a lot of boxes... lots of heart, great chin, good skills, solid resume etc. Yet he was also inconsistent. A lot of the good heavies he faced either beat him or gave him a struggle. Huffed and puffed his way past 40-somethings Foreman and Holmes. Lost his title to Moorer. Against his best contemporaries, Bowe, Tyson and Lewis, he's 3-3-1, solid enough but not spectacular.

Great series with Bowe, but he did lose two out of three and Bowe didn't achieve much else outside of beating Holyfield. You can only give someone so much credit for beating a guy whose biggest (only?) claim to fame is beating him. I think the Tyson fights said more about Tyson than anything else. Post-prison he never really put together a credible run.

Plus there's the serious PED suspicions which are hard to overlook.

Lower top 10 is arguable but no higher for me.

 

Why do you need to put down Tyson in order to build Holyfield up? Holyfields career can stand on its own independent of other fighters and he is a top 10..and regardless of what you think, a case can be made for Tyson to be a top 10 fighter..its all on what you look for in a fighter, and Tyson does beat Holyfield in historical significance and his run as champ was more consistent than Holyfields also.

 

#3 is the Highest I would say.

I rank him at #4.

Holyfield was robbed of a Gold Medal, it would have been the final crowning achievement ending his amateur career.

As a Cruiserweight he was nearly unbeatable and after only 11 pro bouts he goes 15 with the Champion Dwight Qawi (a mini Joe Frazier) and is able to take his Championship. He would then Crush Olympic team mate Henry Tillman, before smashing Parkey and Ocasio to unify the division. He would then rematch Qawi and destroy him in 4 rounds. Next A win against Carlos De Leon a man many consider one of the best Cruisers ever before he moved up to Heavy, he stopped De Leon and dominated him.

At Heavyweight he starts out by dominating Tillis and Thomas both past it but not bums by any means.

Then he takes on a 37-1 Michael Dokes a "clean, drug free" Dokes. I think this Dokes may be the best version of himself ever. They go to war and as had always been the case to this point if you went to war with Holyfield he would break you!

35-2 #3 Rated at the time Adilson Rodriguez l remember lots of hype about him back then coming up from South America, Holyfield puts him to sleep with one over hand right in round 2!!

24-0- 24KO's Stewart, Alex has his moments but Holyfield cuts him up and gets the tko!

Buster Douglas say what you want this man had just destroyed the unbeatable Tyson in his previous fight and though he came in heavier for the Holyfield fight he had fought well at that weight before, Holyfield takes the title again via one punch KO (but he can't punch)

69-2 Foreman, this is a HUGE win that is unfairly overlooked by many due to Foreman's age. But George was still a MASTER at this age. Not many others could've beaten this Foreman!!! For me this might be Holyfields finest performance. Tyson wanted NO PART of this Foreman don't forget that. Holyfield took Foreman's bombs and rocked Foreman all over the ring and won handily on the cards.

Enter Bert Cooper, this was supposed to be Tyson, but he broke a rib :roll: then Damiani but he wimped out, so we get Cooper a man who many claimed was the hardest puncher they ever faced. Holy goes to war and again wins the war tko7.

Then we get Holmes this would have been the Dangerous Mercer but Holmes DOMINATED Ray. Its hard to look good against Holmes win or lose he can make you look bad, he knows every trick in the book. He's an old pro as they say. Tyson was the only fighter who ever looked good beating Holmes. Tyson was brought up to beat Holmes, Cus trained him to beat Larry.

So at this point Holyfield is 28-0 and very dominant, maybe not Tyson one round KO dominant but that wasn't his style. I'll take Holyfield's win over Foreman over anything Tyson did while Champion just saying.

He losses to Bowe, Bowe was the best he would ever be that night. Not to mention a NIGHTMARE H2H for any heavyweight in the history of the Sport. A big guy with power, a great jab and could fight on the inside as well! Not to mention he went to the body like a champ. This is why Futch claimed Bowe was potentially the best heavyweight he'd ever trained (he also trained Frazier)

Lackluster win vs Stewart but gets the W 119-109 dominant but dull.

2nd Bowe fight Another masterclass performance by Holyfield. Perfect mix of boxing and slugging. I contend that the "fanman" helped Bowe.. Holyfield was gaining steam and Bowe was fading I think he'd of finished him possibly had it continued.

Moorer while not his best effort most thought he'd done enough to get the decision while some claim possibly in heart failure during the fight!!!

Mercer a 224 pound Mercer might I add!!!! Best shape of Ray's career much better than the 238 he weighed vs Lewis. Did I mention that Holyfield in this fight became the only man to ever drop the Prime Mercer?? Prime Ray walked thru the Bombs of Morrison, Cooper, Lewis, Witherspoon and everyone else, even Lewis never hurt Ray even with all the bombs he landed. But Holyfield rocked him buckled his legs with a classically timed counter punch, right as Mercer was gaining momentum in the fight "classic Holyfield" baby!!

Bowe #3 Bowe was out, gone and Holyfield couldn't finish him, props to Bowe but you better believe that even though Bowe won the fight Holyfield won the war as Bowe was DONE after his 3 fights with Holyfield.

Czyz yeah he didn't look great but he still dominated on his way to a tko5. I still remember Czyz claiming his "back was out" until his trainer convinced him that NO ITS YOUR EYES IF I SAY ITS YOUR EYES IT YOU EYES....LOL what a joke....

The "Tyson" Fights
Holyfield plain and simple beat his ass!! And was well on his way to doing it again until Tyson got bite happy in fight #2.

Moorer 2, Holyfield had a little trouble early and then bounced Moorer off the canvas like a basketball at will.

The Bean defense

The "Lewis" fights.
Holyfield was well past it by this point, he was outboxed in fight one
but fought on pretty much even terms in fight #2 if this would have been the Holyfield of the Foreman or Bowe #2 fight Lewis would've been soundly beaten in my opinion. Lewis is way overrated, he's top 10 I suppose but he's not as good as Holyfield.

The Ruiz Trilogy.
does anyone actually believe Ruiz stands any chance against the best version of Evander?? or for that matter Byrd or Toney or Donald!!!!!

The rest of Holyfields career is not worth mentioning yes he got a few more W's against some names

Oquendo
Botha
Savarese
Neilson

He's #4 on my list boys!! Granted I grew up watching his every move and he's my favorite fighter of all time so I MAY BE a little biased, but this is my opinion. :deal

I have no issues with where anyone would or would not rank Holyfield this is a subjective sport and EVERYONE is entitled to his/her opinion.:good