Rusty Rosenberger drugged before nino gonzalez fight

The argument is getting too personal now.. pretty soon we will be calling each other names.. And getting all red faced over typed words from someone we never met... I just want the thread removed if possible.. It serves no purpose. Artie, got his answer.. Since he was the only one who asked the question and he never followed up on the answer.. What purpose does it serve now?

 

Unclaimed Destiny - The Heart of a Champion, by Dane Crandon

Ever been taken for ride? Abused, misused or manipulated? We all know that greed is everywhere. It's endemic. It's a disease that cannot be treated. A sore that never heals. Gordon Gecko of Wallstreet said, "Greed is good." I doubt Gregg "Rusty" Rosenberger will agree. Rusty who? The name meant nothing to me. I'm not a boxing aficionado. The story of Unclaimed Destiny: The Heart of a Champion, however, means something. The noble art of boxing has taken many punches to its shaky reputation. Brains have been damaged and combatants killed, fights have been fixed and shonky promoters have accumulated a wealth of sly riches. Brutality aside, the lucrative nature of pugilism is such that those unable to resist the lure of temptation will seek to gain from the exploitation of others - irrespective of the cost.
Rusty was a boxing talent. In 1979, this developing talent struck a decisive blow to the chin of the fight world when he claimed the New Jersey State Middleweight Champion. Higher honours beckoned. Committed to success, dedicated to achieve, but too trusting, the latter was a knockout punch to his blossoming career. The victim of his manager's short-term greed, Rusty accepted some pills prior to stepping into the ring. Ironically, his nickname typified his drug-infected performance. Rusty seized. Hit hard and often, he was never the same boxer again.
Unclaimed Destiny: The Heart of a Champion will never be a literary great. Don't expect a tale of epic proportions. This is not a Pulitzer Prize winner or ****ensian masterpiece. It's a sad and simple account of man whose trust sent him to the canvas of boxing oblivion. Now speech affected, suffering a punch-drunk affliction common to many aging boxers, Rusty is a sergeant working in an Ohio prison. Dreams of glove greatness long since counted out, still carrying the bruises of what may-have-been, the full force of deceit and exploitation crushed his lofty aspirations but not his formidable spirit.
The noble art of boxing? Hmmm, don't think so.

 

Well-that was an interesting conversation.I will not review the pro's and con's on this discussion due to my total ignorance of the subject matter.

 

Thanks for dropping in.. but I think the argument is over..

 

I'd love Bobby Czyz to weigh in on this thread. Im sure at some point Baby Bobby worked with Rosenberger in the gym and ripped him a new one.

 

I would like to hear Bobby's take on this too.. I have no doubt that he ripped Rusty a good one like you said. (Rusty was still a developing club fighter) Mustafa Hamsho ripped Bobby a good one too.. Bobby could tell you a little about going down in weight too fast. I would also like to hear from Ray Boom Boom Mancini. Rusty said he met Ray before the fight, they spoke briefly, and that Ray commented on his excessive weight loss for the Nino fight.. Wither or not Rusty's destiny was to rise in the middleweight rankings or even become champion is not the pinnacle question here.. Others have scoffed at that assertion from Rusty in his book, Unclaimed Destiny. That's their opinion, and that's okay.. And they make good points on that. But they have gone to extremes to discredit that claim alone.. The pinnacle question is ... Did Lou Duva set Rusty up for defeat to protect his butt from the mob? Did he give Rusty pills that would further weaken him? Nobody can prove it one way or another it seems.. But those who witnessed the fight said Rusty was not even close to the same fighter that night.. He had nothing from the opening bell.. even before he was hit. Lou later was quoted:

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Yes, Rusty is a friend of mine.. I have been uploading his fight videos and boxercise training videos... In doing so, I got caught up in his story.. I didn't know anything about that before uploading his videos to youtube and FB.. I goggled more information about his fights and ran across his story.. Which eventually led to this thread. This tread sat for 4 years without comments after Artie got his answer.. Well, I didn't think it was right for it to just hang like that..Not the way he said it anyway.. So, I joined the club..and that's how this heated debate got started.. The debate started to get personal, which usually happens when you can't think of any more civil ways to state your case.. Since then, Rusty has said to me with his heart,.. in such a way, I couldn't help but believe the man.. I quote...

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Did you read Dane Crandon book review above? He believed Rusty too.. Believed him enough to put his real name on HIS book review, possibly subjecting himself to a lawsuit as well.. Which never came..

 

Did Lou Duva put a gun to Rusty's head, hold him down, and dump pills down his throat? Did Rusty not say his own father convinced him to SUPPOSEDLY take those pills that SUPPOSEDLY account for his loss to a guy who wasnt that good to begin with? The bottom line is Rusty made his own choices, he was a big boy, he needs to take the responsibility for his losses and his actions just like had he won he would have accepted the plaudits.

I wonder what Nino Gonzalez would have to say about all of this. He'd likely laugh considering Rusty's "dramatic" drop in ability just happened to coincide with him facing the best fighter he had yet met...

As for Dane Crandons review: Should we really be putting a lot of weight into the opinion of an Australian accountant who wasnt alive at the time of the events, admits hes never heard of Rusty (and who has) and admits hes not a boxing aficianado... Why would he get sued for writing a review of a book, good or bad? Doesnt work like that.

 

Okay.. You are more knowledgeable,.. In some areas I'm just beginning to research.. I too question Rusty's decision to take pills, lose so much weight.. etc.. And ultimately it's his own fault. But he trusted Lou, wouldn't you think a manager would try to help you, not hurt you? I have a question, not to change the subject.. But, which do you think can cause more brain damage to a fighter... Getting hit so hard it knocks him out with one punch? Or, taking many blows, even from a relatively light hitter, round after round for 10 rounds?

Hey, it would great if we could get Nino in here.. to weigh in on this.. Do you know how to get a hold of him? .. If not, I'll try..

 

His dad bet on Nino. Lou, bet on Nino...And the betting odds, fixed by mob people...bet on Nino. That came out after the fight.. His dad admitted that to him, much later after the fight.. You need an affidavit, signed by the guilty parties? Yeah, sure.. that's gonna happen.. Rusty trusted his manager, and his dad... wouldn't you? As far as Nino not being that good a fighter.. maybe not top level.. But he sure and the hell gave Roberto Duran, in his first comeback fight, all he wanted for 10 rounds.. many thought he won. He lost a 10 round UD 47 to 48... Now, I suppose you are going to say Roberto was past his prime.., we all know that. But look what Roberto accomplished after that.. beat Iran Barkley, a much bigger man. Beat Sugar Ray Leonard, (I know, no mas next). Then Duran did what Hearns couldn't do, and many other top contenders, make a long tough fight of it for 12 rounds against Hagler. Hearns was too tall and dangers, early on, for Duran in their fight. Duran made some noise, even after his prime years and best fighting weight was behind him. Nino more than held his own against him. it's on youtube, watch the fight.. Later Nino got poleaxed by John Mugabi, no disgrace there..

 

Im sure there was HEAVY betting on a fight nobody cared about... LOL. Do you even understand how betting works for a fix to be profitable. The idea that Rusty thinks there was enough money wagered on this fight to make it worth anybody fixing it illustrates how delusional he is about his career. And regardless, who cares if everyone bet against Rusty, and thats even if this story were plausible. Betting doesnt make the fight a fix. Rusty never had to take the fight and never had to make weight if he didnt want to. He seems to want to blame everyone else for his "mistake" and again, was it really that huge of leap to lose 4 pounds and fight a guy with only 10 fights to his name? At the end of the day the fact that he couldnt bridge that gap says more about him than all of his conspiracy theories combined.

I certainly need more than the word of a guy who claims to have been on the cusp of a world title shot and who claims to have "shocked the world" by winning the NJ MW championship. In fact, considering most of what Rusty has said is ridiculous then yes, I need more than his word.

And Im still waiting for proof that he shouldnt have.

Oh bull****. Duran, despite putting up a poor performance, having been out of the ring for almost a year, weighing more than he ever had in a fight, and fighting the biggest fighter he had ever faced clearly beat Gonzalez. You wanna somehow piggy back on Gonzalez losing effort to the worst Duran up to that point as somehow evidence of just how good Rusty was for getting his ass kicked by Gonzalez??

More bull****. The scores were: Jackie Keough 48-44 judges: Ed McGuire 47-43, Vito Mazzeo 48-45

Holding your own is fighting evenly. More than holding your own is winning. Gonzalez didnt do either of those things and regardless, Rusty lost to Gonzalez, who only had 10 fights at that point not the more seasoned pro who fought Duran 2 years and 15 fights later and who had actually gone 10 rounds or more a number of times which he hadnt when he beat Rusty.

 

The fight was in Giant Stadium... is that the normal venue for unimportant fight cards in the N.Y area..? No, Nino and Rusty weren't the featured bout, I think Rocky Lockridge was the headliner, the future super featherweight champ. Nino and Rusty were two popular N.J club fighters on the card. Rusty, the N.J. Middleweight Champ vs Nino, the N.J. Welterweight champ. Intriguing, don't you think? No, never mind. I know you place no importance on the N.J fight scene, you've dissed that extensively already. I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet there is always heavy betting on local fights with fixed outcomes, if the odds are high enough to lure the uninformed. But I don't know much about that, so I guess you know more about that too. Your facts are impressive, and you nitpick at my meaning, (holding his own, or more than holding his own, or my memory of score cards etc.) is only a cleaver way to deflect from the truth, to throw up detractors of the truth in Rusty's story..but they can't stop the truth.. Truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it, you just turn it lose and it will defend it self...And that is what his book is out there for... and me, because Rusty is a friend of mine..

 

It was preliminary bout way down on the undercard of a non title fight. Lockeridge wasnt the headliner, he only had 7 fights at that point. Mike Rossman was. So yes, Rosenbergers fight with Gonzalez was an unimportant fight to pretty much everyone but apparently Rosenberger. A fight between a guy who has only 15 fights and has never faced ANYONE of note, and faced what was it 3 fighters who had winning records against a guy who had only 10 fights, zero of which came against a fighter with a winning record, is an unimportant bout. And Rusty can make all the hay he wants out of having to drop down but Nino Gonzalez was being forced to move up in weight to fight Rusty and could have just as easily been hurt. Only a year earlier he was fighting at 130 and now hes facing a guy who fights at 160 and Rusty is complaining he had to lose 4 pounds???

No, I dont, not in the sense that Rusty frames his story, as if the world was paying attention to his NJ fights and he was on the cusp of a title shot only to get it snatched away from him. No, I dont place that kind of importance on those bouts and neither did anyone else.

First of all you would have to even show that odds would be offered on such a fight, by who, why, and what they were. Its unlikely anyone was even taking bets on that fight. If they were it would have been small time, local between a couple or a handful of people at most. That kind of chump change makes it more trouble than its worth to fix a fight, so sorry, but that little conspiracy theory can be laughed off a by anyone who knows anything about betting and boxing.

I dont nitpick your meaning at all. You tried to allude to the idea that because Nino went 10 rounds with an off form, fat, rusty Duran (and still lost convincingly) that it somehow proves that a younger, much less experienced Nino who handed Rusty his ass, was better than Im giving him credit for. He wasnt. The fact that Rusty couldnt beat him just means that Rusty wasnt on that level, and that level wasnt very high. This is proven by Rusty's later record, allegations of fixes, doping, dives, or brain damage not withstanding. You brought this on yourself by coming on here and trying to back up Rusty's wild claims by attacking me and then not even having the basic knowledge of the era necessary to defend yourself or Rusty's claims. If your arguments keep falling apart and you keep having to admit your mistakes, that people know more than you, and that maybe Rusty's stories dont always add up then maybe you also need to admit that your faith might be a bit misguided.

 

You must have a boxing almanac handy.. I admit, I'm shooting from the hip here on some of my statements.. I am only interested in one truth.. not all your fact based knowledge.. Which you think justifies your opinion on whither or not Rusty was drugged by Lou Duva or not... And the facts are, you don't know.. I don't know.. We just have different beliefs on the matter.. You weren't there, and neither was I... Here's why I believe Rusty... I know the man personally, and I know hundreds of people who know Rusty personally, and it's common knowledge that Rusty is not a liar.. he is not making faults claims about being drugged by Lou Duva.. You are aghast, and rightfully so, I suppose, at Rusty's claim he shocked the world, that he was on the cusp of glory. It was an overstatement, I'll admit... Probably an over zealous writer promoting his book wrote that. I don't think Rusty made those lofty claims on his own behalf.. All your facts and knowledge can not change the truth... If this was a boxing trivia contest, you got me beat.. but that is all you have proved with your fact base rhetoric about things that have no bearing on Rusty's claim of being drugged by his manager before the Nino fiight. Like a ladder an attorney uses in his appeal to the jury, you take one step at a time to lead people to the logic conclusion that you want them to believe... That Rusty was a loser, Rusty wasn't important, so why would anyone do that to him..? I don't know, you tell me. If you were going to argue the other side of this debate, what would you say? I think you are like a politician who could take any side of the argument and make a convincing case that you are right, and the other side is wrong.. then you could switch back and forth on the argument.. I have heard of that debate tactic... I don't know if you've had training in that area or not, but you are good at it.. Hats off to you..

 

Hey man, you are the one who is willing to believe Rusty's bull**** hook line and sinker. You want me to just believe that garbage without asking for any proof, or even questioning all of the contradictions. Sorry, Im not going to do that. Lou Duva had an excellent reputation in the sport. In fact he worked so hard that he had a heart attack the very same night you want to believe he forced Rusty to take "some pills" (never mind that, again, he admits it was his dad who convinced him to take the alleged pills, and has yet to tell us exactly what those alleged pills were). Ask Rusty about that. Ask Rusty to explain to you exactly why Duva would take him under his wing, extremely carefully match him in order to pad his record and build him up, only to have him lose the first time he steps up? Again, you dont know much about boxing if you think is even plausible and dont tell me about gambling either because that story doesnt fly. Nobody is redirecting the conversation, or changing the subject, or arguing both ends against the middle. My point has not changed in the 15 years since I first came across Rusty. The problem is that when you start asking even basic questions about this story it just falls completely apart and you are left with the much more plausible story that Rusty was protected and had a padded record and was never very good to begin with. Because I state the obvious you say I have a personal stake in this yet Im not the one going on about how well I know Rusty and how I know hundreds of people who know him. Who has the personal stake in this and who WANTS to believe Rusty's story?

 

It was 11lbs in 5 days Rusty had to lose, not 4. He was originally scheduled to fight another opponent at 166lbs. If you don't think Lou Duva wasn't always looking out for #1. I'd like to know what color the sun is on your planet. I know what would settle this, the film of that fight? I know it wasn't important enough to be on TV, but with all your knowledge and connections, couldn't you find out if somebody took film.. amateur or otherwise.. Don't just say who cares.. Wouldn't you like to see for yourself and prove me wrong once and for all.. That Rusty was in fine shape and lost to a better fighter.. I am going to move heaven and earth to find that film if one was made. Even a pre-fight photo would reveal something! Will you be fair and help me find that film if one exists?