Could Mike Tyson really beat Joe Frazier?

I know a lot of people believe that, but I don't really think he could.

Mike Tyson in his prime was very good. But he never really beat anyone great. The best person he beat in his prime was Michael Spinks, who was OK.

Frazier on the other hand has only really been blasted out by George Foreman. If Holyfield himself said that old Foreman hit harder than either Lewis or Tyson, then I'm not really surprised that Frazier got smashed by Foreman. Foreman was a slugger, and the short swarming types are never really good against a stronger, more powerful slugger.

Frazier actually has wins over much, much better competition than Prime Tyson. His stamina was far better than Mike's but moreover, he had much more heart. Whenever Mike had his heart challenged, he didn't really do good. He hated fighting people who stood up to him - Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis are all examples.

Mike Tyson certainly looked very impressive, but against okay caliber. An ****ysis of his early competition shows it to be comparable to Deontay Wilder:

http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/5086-Mike-Tyson-Deontay-Wilder-comparison

Similarly to Tyson, Frazier's first 10 fights were all won within 1-5 rounds, but once he stepped up his competition, he had to adjust his style to fight the late rounds; and against the likes of Ali and Chuvalo, he was able to do that. His stamina was incredible.

Once Mike, like Joe, stepped his competition, we saw several fights where that early blowout was much less impressive; Bone Crusher Smith took him the full 12 rounds, Pinklon Thomas took him 6 rounds, Tony Tucker took him the full 12 and Tyrell Briggs took him 7.

You can see the contrast between Frazier and Tyson's records here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Frazier#Professional_boxing_record

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tyson#Professional_boxing_record

I think Joe's stamina, in addition to his tremendous heart and higher caliber of competition leads me to believe that he'd take survive Tyson's early blowout, wear him down in the mid rounds and stop him in the late rounds.

Tyson doesn't have Foreman esque power; Foreman was a machine, and part of the reason he beat Frazier was style; any small swarmer trying to fight forward against a brick is going to lose.

 

Tyson's early competition is comparable to Deontay Wilder's. Check the link I posted. If we look at Frazier's early fights, we'll notice a lot of early knockouts too.

But once Tyson stepped up the game, his early round knockout rate decreased; as did Frazier's. Tyson was more technical than Foreman, but Foreman's style was perfect for Frazier's, far more than Tyson's.

The Holmes that fought Tyson was completely past his prime. The thing is, I don't know if Tyson would ever go to war. Frazier went to war with Ali, especially in the Thrilla of Manilla.

 

Can you address the argument I made in the OP?

Who did Prime Tyson beat that is comparable to Frazier's caliber of competition?

 

But Mike didn't flatten everyone; he struggled to knock out Tucker and Smith. And Buster Douglas beat a prime Mike Tyson; the caliber of opposition that Tyson fought was OK, but it was very average. My argument is that if you look at Frazier's early opposition, he very much did the same as Tyson by knocking them out early.

Even the Ali that returned from exile was still a ring-master who had adjusted his style; and Frazier went to war with him. If Tyson couldn't intimidate his opponent, and was challenged, he lost a lot of heart.

The only person to have ever completely KO'd Frazier was Foreman and Foreman was a monster puncher, even into his middle-ages. Tyson has been stopped in the late rounds several times; he can be worn down and stopped.

How was Frazier's chin shaky?

Tyson HAD a chance to fight better heavyweights in the 1990's but he didn't do it; Rid**** Bowe, George Foreman, etc.

 

Holyfield isn't a puncher like Mike, he's a boxer. Ray Mercer was quite good.

That's about it for post-peak Holmes; he was an okay fighter. The prime Larry Holmes would have whooped Mike Tyson.

 

The Buster Douglas who fought Holyfield was overweight; he was 246lbs and noticeably fat.

The Douglas who knocked out Mike Tyson was determined, and 230lbs.

 

How does this mean he has a weak chin? Frazier's chin is average; anyone can get knocked down by a well placed shot. Muhammad Ali has been knocked down several times yet still gotten up; who has actually knocked Frazier out?

Ali stopped him because his corner called it quits (against Frazier's wishes) and Foreman smashed him because...well he's George Foreman. Frazier actually had heart, that's why he continued.

Tyson on the other hand has actually been stopped; if you wear Tyson down, you can beat him. Douglas did it, Holyfield did and Lewis did it. They're all late-rounds fighters, Tyson's early style blowouts were good against average opponents. He had a chance to fight top level heavyweights in the 1990's and he never did it, he chose to fight tomato cans instead.

The reason why Frazier was slow against Mathis is because Frazier was a slow starter. He would work the body and wear down his opponents so that he could knock them out late. He was a 15 round fighter. If you compare that to Mike Tyson, you'll see that Tyson expended a lot of energy early - that's why he was fast. He was using 12 rounds of energy into about 6 - whereas Frazier was more well rounded, hence why he was able to go to war with Ali.

Frazier is taller than Tyson by an inch and has a longer reach; the only difference between them is that Tyson was a bit stockier, and outweighed Frazier by about 9lbs.

And comparing Marvis vs Tyson to Joe vs Tyson is so stupid. Marvis can not fight toe to toe with Muhammad Ali. Marvis got steamrolled by Larry Holmes; the comparison is dumb as hell. Frazier >>>>>>>>>>>> his son.

I don't know why you're bringing Ali into this, Ali would trounce Tyson easily.

P.S, Frazier has knocked out big men. Manuel Romos was 6''4 and Bugner was the same height.