Tony Zale vs the MW of the last 30 yrs

Why couldnt the prime black fighters beat the old black fighters?

What do these prime black fighters have stylistically that make them a threat to Marciano?

Should Marciano have fought the losers of title eliminators instead of the winners? Like Jack Dempsey did?

Had Marciano beaten baker instead of Moore, would you have given Marciano more credit since baker was young despite being much worse?

 

:zzz:zzz:zzz

 

Valdes blew his chance of a shot at Marciano when he fought Moore in a title eliminator. He lost, and Marciano fought the winner. Can't really hold that against him.

 

Robert prefers champions to fight the losers of title eliminators like his favorite

 

I've enjoyed reading this thread, but now it's getting tiresome. You're coming off as being ignorant here.

Life is defined by circumstances and opportunity.

Marciano didn't fight Valdes because he lost.

Zale didn't fight the row due to the war etc.

What's the difference?

Nothing.

Both of the above things didn't occur due to circumstances.

It seems that you'll take circumstances into account for Marciano, yet you won't for Zale.

Just because a fighter didn't fight guys, it doesn't automatically constitute as a duck.

 

Zale had plenty of time pre war to fight one of the hall of fame highly ranked black guys ..also post war. Didn't take any of them on. Had 7 title defenses in 1941 not one against the murderers row

Zale was clearly very protected and kept clear of the divisions best

I think Nate bolden was the only black fighter he fought in his career and he lost

Racism was very prevalent in those days..it's a big dent in your legacy if you don't fight another man due to the color of his skin


How do we know how good zale was?

 

I understand what you're saying, but you need to do some more research.

You can't just say he ducked them simply because he never fought them.

Were the fights viable?

Was Zale willing to fight them, yet his management wouldn't allow it?

Were the guys who he fought instead better fighters?

Did the guys who he fought instead bring in more money?

I don't know the answers to the above questions, but I need to see evidence or logical opinions as to why he didn't want to fight them.

Maybe it was just circumstances why he didn't fight any of them.

I don't know.

But give me something.

At the minute you're just speculating that he didn't want to fight them, just on the grounds that the fights never happened. But in my opinion, that's not evidence.

 

"I think Nate bolden was the only black fighter he fought in his career and he lost."

The pair split four fights prior to 1940.

 

Burt, McVey, Chuck, Fists, Greg,

in your honest opinions, why didn't Zale fight any of the 'row' BEFORE the war?


Thanks.

 

L, good question to a TIRED OLD THREAD trying to paint Tony Zale as a faint hearted gutless fighter trying to avoid tough competition before WW2...First of all Tony Zale did fight black fighters such as the tough Nate Bolden as
Clay Moyle pointed out. Zale did fight other black fighters as Jimmy Clark and
the rugged Ossie Bulldog Harris as well as others. So the false notion that Tony Zale avoided fighting black fighters is a bunch of hogwash perpetrated by SQ who tries his darndest to besmirch the reputation of this truly tough and great MW Tony Zale...SQ suffers from compulsive obsession and doesn't let facts get in his way...Before the war Zale took on 4 of the top middleweights of his era, fighting the murderous punching Al Hostak twice,
Billy Soose a top boxer, the all around excellent Fred Apostoli, Georgie Abrams in his prime and even took on the terrific LH Billy Conn in Zale's
last fight in 1942 before he served 4 prime years in the Navy...
I 70 years later cannot read into the mind of Tony Zale's braintrust Sam Pian and Art Winch, but the Murderers Row fighters we are now talking about were NOT as big gate attractions as The Apostoli's, Billy Soose, Al Hostak, Billy Conn contingent that Zale did fight before he went into the Navy...
Boxing after all is a "business", and Zale's management worked to make the most dough for their fighter, and Tony Zale was no philanthropist, just a
tough guy who was guided by his advisers to guide him to a title and they succeeded in doing that...Then the terrible WW2 occurred and everything changed dramatically, and who of us could predict today how things would have turned out in Zale's career if WW2 never came about ?
P.S. L, I have posted SQ who loves his "racial' threads that demean a Zale,
and asked him why doesn't he criticize Ray Robinson [who I saw as a WW]
who NEVER, though he could have given a well deserved money bout to
some members of "murderers row' such as Cocoa Kid, Charley Burley,
Holman Williams, Bert Lytell etc ??? Ray Robinson those days ruled the boxing world [as well he should have] and COULD have but never did give a bout to some of the very same fighters that SQ says Tony Zale DUCKED !!!
Why the double standard L ??? And why doesn't SQ respond to my query ???
Common sense dictates why he doesn't respond...

 

Burt,

Thanks for the great reply, and it's always an absolute pleasure for me to read your posts.

I'm completely satisfied with what you've wrote.

Basically, under different circumstances, he could/would have fought all of them.

Admittedly, I don't know much about Zale. But from the information that I've gathered, he doesn't strike me as a guy who'd have ducked anyone.

Do you think SRR would also have fought the 'row' under different circumstances?


:good

 

Robinson was a welterweight. He fought the best black welterweights

 

" 4 of the top middleweights of his era"

No he didn't he never fought Charley Burley Ezzard Charles Archie Moore and Holman Williams

Those were the four best at 160 in zales era