Just How Good Was Tony Zale?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Thoughts?:think
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I'd include him in the fabled "white murderer's row", although he wasn't the best of the bunch and came at the tail end of it.

    White Freddie Steele and Caucasian Fred Apostoli were better, as was the white contender/champion Ken Overlin I believe, perhaps snow white Billy Soose too, not the mention white dynamite Teddy Yarosz and young Billy Conn, the white Irish phenomenon.

    Also, I'd like to add that Zale was white, which is the second-best thing a 1930s-'40s middleweight can be, only surpassed by being black. He did get beat up once or twice by black fighter though, which usually makes a white fighter almost black in excellence.

    (although recent research suggest Zale might have been part Jap, still not 100% proven. )

    I don't think we even have to mention race though, since Zale was just a great fighter, who happened to be white.
     
  3. Ragamuffin

    Ragamuffin Active Member Full Member

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    A good contender.........................
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    That's all white then.:good
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    I liked that Dutch contender too.Van Illa:good
    I'm still disappointed to have learned that Arnold Cream was not actually Caucasian.:-(i
     
  6. Ragamuffin

    Ragamuffin Active Member Full Member

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    Very good..............:lol:
     
  7. Ragamuffin

    Ragamuffin Active Member Full Member

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    Footnote:
    Who actually gave him the name JJWalcott?
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Arnold Cream started out white. That's when he was losing to Al Ettore and Abe Simon.
    Then he hooked up with the New Jersey mob and they pulled some strings, changed his name, and he became slick and black and took the name of a legendary black old-timer. He starting winning more then.

    They did the same thing for Count Basie, who started out a a mediocre white hillbilly banjo player.
    The mob was all powerful in those days.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    It was his second choice ,originally he picked the moniker
    " Whitey Walcott" but for some reason it didn't stick.:think
     
  10. Ragamuffin

    Ragamuffin Active Member Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Yeah the mob was the original Murderers Row and EVERYONE avoided them, not just Polish/American middleweights.
    I remember Basie when he was only black down one side, his right, he couldn't play piano with his left hand, nor swim with that side of his body, just used to keep revolving in the pool.:-(
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    :lol:

    It's refreshing to have an intelligent discussion about Zale without SuzieQ turning up and making it all about race. :good
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Anything you want to know about that era just ask .


























    !
    Not me, I don't know what the f*ck I'm talking about!:oops:
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    It's easy.
    Just remember

    1. Everyone who held the title or got a shot at the title was overrated fraud.

    2. Everyone who never got a shot at the title was great.

    Generally, to make it easier, things were colour-coded.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Things were not that black and white were they?
    I know the Zebra Kid could have been great but he was very inconsistent. Great one night the next p*ss poor.:-(