Rock vs Iron

You make jest of making adjustments in weight and training to face a new an formidable opponent ... Do you think the Rock and his handlers would not have bulked him up 10 or 15 lbs...much like a light heavyweight would going up to heavyweight.. It's done all the time.. Rock was little more than a light heavyweight anyway... he just was unusually strong for his weight.. Moving up to at least 205 would have had him more on par with Tyson. It's not fair to pluck Marciano out of an old film.. and say, just like your are Rock.. He and his handlers would have made those training and weight adjustments for Mike...

 

:ko This is the Rock on Tyson in the 11th round...

 

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With his short arms on the inside, he didn't have to be lighting fast.. He'd get it there on time...that's all that matters....

 

Hey, let's go over to the thread below and see what they say..

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=Seamus;17394572]No... No, it would not.

Marciano had the chest measurements of a per-adolescent. He had narrow shoulders, stumpy limbs and a giant bobble head. His team knew his best fighting weight. Yes, they actually knew more than posters on a BB 60 years later. I know that is hard to swallow.

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Re: Marciano's Body Frame could easily be Tua and Tyson

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=Berlenbach;[/COLOR]17394527 ]How about matching Tyson against the Marciano who actually existed, instead of magically making him 20lbs+ heavier than he ever weighed in the ring? Seems like you don't fancy the chances of the 185lb version....[/quote]
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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post

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"Let me tell you something. Rocky was not that small when you meet him in real life. he had to trained down to that fine condition."-

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Let me start out by saying....You don’t have to be 6'1 and 77" inch reach to be able to carry extra weight. You don’t need to be tall like Holyfield or Spinks just to be able to carry extra weight. shorter guys can put on weight too if they have the correct bone structure.

Some posters including one in particular believes Rocky can only be compared to men his size, and that he doesn’t have the frame to carry extra weight. Of course it is only my subjective opinion, but I strongly disagree with that opinion. Think of David Tua and Mike Tyson....both guys were 5'9 and 5'10 with 69" and 71" reaches, Rocky was taller at 5'11 and had similar reach. I truly believe Rocky's bone structure was the same as these guys, I just believe Rocky trained in a different era with less nutrition, modern supplements and modern weight training methods. The way rocky trained in the old day, you lose mass. Rocky admitted in his biography he did not lift weights, because a weight lifter told him be careful with those if you don’t know what your doing with them. Imagine if Rocky was put on a great weight lifting program with modern nutrition and maybe even supplements? He could have easily put on more muscle making him a scary hulk. If rocky were training today with today’s training methods, I strongly believe his body frame would look like a combined version of Tua and Tyson. These guys did it, so can Marciano.
I spoke with Rocky's brother Peter personally and he told me that rocky naturally weighed well over 200lb, and that it took a lot out of him to keep his weight under 190lb, that by 1955 rocky could not keep it under 190lb anymore. Both he and Goody Petronelli told me if rocky were fighting today, he would fight at around 210-215lb with modern training.

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Here he is during training. I would guess that he is in the 190s in this picture considering he naturally weighed 210-220lb and cut from there. There is not an ounce of fat on him, he can easily add some more mass on to this frame, especially considering he is big boned like Tyson and Tua...he has the ability to add on mass.

One poster he mentioned speed as being the key asset for a small heavyweight to do well against big men. I strongly disagree here, while Tyson had the speed. Tua did not. I feel strength and punching power coupled with durability are far more important. If you have the one punch power to knock a 250lb man dead, which Rocky did, than its vital. 2ndly if you have the chin to take a hard hitting 220lbers punch, which Rocky did, than this is crucial. When you add a modernly trained Rocky who with proper nutrition and weight training program goes up to 205-210lb, I think his chin and power will only go up. Rocky was the strongest out of all the 3 swarmers, Frazier and Dempsey. Strength is just as important as speed because then you have the ability to keep up with the big men in the clinches and not let there size wear you out. Also durability is huge. Tua had just punching power and durability and he got to the top. Marciano with added mass and bulk from modern training I think those categories can only go up in his favor. One thing I find more important than speed is skill and style. Charlie Goldman built Rockys whole style around defeating tall and larger heavyweights. When you get low in a crouch and move your torso around in athletic angles, and duck weave slip under long punches, it makes it very tough for a tall big man to hit you with a clean punch without having him to reach down and leave himself off balance and wide open for counter punches. I believe Rocky's crouch would suit him very well vs. the big men. I do not believe reach is important factor. Tua and Tyson got by without reach advantages. I feel LEVERAGE is much more key. its all about how you use your reach. Because Rocky had a short reach, he had tremendous leverage, and when he gets inside a big man, he is going to have such a huge advantage there, he was incredible at punching with full body leverage from short distances. When you have a really short reach, you are a killer on the inside. When these big men miss Rocky in his crouch he’s going to get inside and go to town on them. Another thing is Stamina, most big men through history did not possess good stamina or top work rate. Rocky Marciano can get into slug outs with these men and keep hammering away everywhere on there body and he just wont stop throwing punches, and he will tire them out, some of these big men will be taken to the later rounds and just wilt to the pressure. Stamina and work rate is MORE IMPORTANT THAN SPEED against big men if your small. outwork the big man and break him down. Perhaps the best of the super heavyweights like Rid**** Bowe or lennox lewis might have his number, but that’s what it would take to beat him. It would take the very best skilled powerful super heavyweights to beat him. Rocky would be a nightmare for most big heavyweights with his style.
Interesting Stat of the day:

Rocky Marciano during his career was 11-0 with 11 knockouts against men above 200. There is no reason with modern training and enhancements he can't look like them

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Marciano was 5 10 1/2in tall, his chest was smaller than mine [I'm 5 8 1/2in] Tyson’s chest is around 43in and his neck is 19in he is NATURALLY BIGGER than Rocky so is Tua,this is before they started on "other stuff". Marciano did look like them only smaller. Pumping him up would do zero for his ability, he got his endurance through incredible dedication to hard work and Spartan living. These guys like Briggs may look the part but lack stamina, as to Tua he became a fat slob ,he went from a ripped squat powerhouse to a tubby ****ell type, lack of discipline. Tyson was as big as Rocky when he was a teenager! The guy is naturally wide, Marciano's stats are average, it was the effort he put in during gym time, and the sacrifices he made that made him the monster he was, nutrition ,supplements, roids,whatever , will only take you so far. You need the single minded determination and self belief of a monk , the ***** of an elephant , and a heart as big as a building . Rocky had them. :hi: