Harry Greb-Walker film 1978?

Cant answer me directly? :think

 

I think that's what was going on. The guy was handing out these handbills in Vegas at one of the fights announcing that he had found this film and was selling it for $100,000. He was trying to find some high roller with more money than sense to purchase it. Pretty hilarious.

 

Looks like zolcat is down for the count!

 

If this is Greb then the opponent is clearly much taller than he, so I'm confused as to how it suddenly changed to Allentown Joe Gans being the opponent.

 

After Klompton's case, I wouldn't pay 100 cents for the footage.

 

I've read a lot of threads regarding lost films on here and other sites and it is clear Klompton is an authority on the subject. Doesn't mean he can't be wrong or that someone will turn up Greb footage someday, but I would strongly say that if he believes the man claiming to have this footage is a fraud regarding this fight then I would say the guy is a fraud.

 

I am writing this because of the personal attacks and untrue statements written about me and the footage i have by a certain individual. I do not know this individual personally . I have never met this individual , I don't recall ever speaking with this individual .This individual admits he has never viewed the footage I have that is most likely Greb - Gans. It would be pointless to discuss the footage with someone who has not seen it. I have shown the footage to 10 very well known and respected boxing people , 5 from IBRO and 5 independent ones. 9 of the 10 people said the footage is Greb or most likely Greb, only one said he was not sure who it was but could not rule out Greb. If it is not Greb who is it? Some random comments from those who saw it, a well known trainer and TV commentator said "Yes 100% it Greb" A well known author ,writer and historian said "This is the find of the century" a longtime boxing collector /writer from the midwest said "I feel my life is now complete after seeing Greb in a real fight" Its a mystery to me why someone who claims to be an expert on Harry Greb would not want to see the footage and be elated it exists .Also there are two sides to every story, I can answer every inaccurate statement you have made about myself and the footage. God Bless, Kurt

 

Ridiculous.

First of all Kurt you have no idea what Ive seen. I know for a fact you do not have in your hands a film of Greb. You have not answered a single point I have brought up at all despite claiming you could. Have at it. Refute everything Ive said.

I love the comment: "if its not Greb who is it?" Uhh, how about several thousand other possibilities? Why the knee jerk reaction to always claim you have a film of Greb, and on two occasions you KNEW you didn't? Dempsey-Malone sparring was titled on the actual film in an intertitle. Why edit that out and claim it was Dempsey sparring Greb? Dempsey sparring Tillie Kid Herman in 1926 had an identifying catalogue mark at the beginning of the clip, why edit that out and claim it was Greb? Even the clip you have on your websites front page now listed as Dempsey training in 1921 is Dempsey training in 1926 and from the same series as the Tillie Kid Herman footage you claim is Dempsey sparring Greb, both are identifiable by catalogue marks at the beginning of each clip. That's something "THE EXPERT IN BOXING" as you profess to be should be able to understand.

Why were you claiming this was footage of Greb against Bill Tate and now its Greb against Gans? In fact, for a guy who claims to not know me I find it odd that two years ago when you were selling this fight as Greb-Tate I emailed you and notified you that Greb had never sparred Tate, then next thing I know a while later you are selling it as Greb-Gans. Would you care to address that?

You have nothing more than an unidentified VHS tape of white fighter in the ring with a black fighter and want to pretend its a fight that was never filmed. Nevermind that the Greb-Gans fight was at night and this film was taken in the daytime, you and all of your supporters just cant seem to even address that fact. You say you can refute every point Ive made, do it. Am I mistaken? Was this fight held in the daytime? No. Because I can prove to you it was not. Is this a film shot at night under incredibly powerful lights? No. Because we can compare it to other outdoor night films of the era and see that it clearly is filmed at day (something a real forensic expert would pic up on immediately). That lone problem is an insurmountable for you in claiming this is Greb-Gans. Period. End of story.

You say you have a 16mm and not a VHS copy. Fine, I say again, post a photo of the edge code so we can see it in relation to a frame of the footage you have posted. You wont because you cant. The beginning of the film and the end of the film would also likely have small holes punched in a pattern which would identify when that batch of film was cut. Post that hole punch pattern. No? Didn't think so. Your forensic expert wasn't aware of these things? Not much of an expert was he?

Ask any of those guys from IBRO if they feel more qualified to discuss either Greb or films than me. How about I post a series of photos of boxers and corresponding films of equally ****ty, multigenerational vhs copies and you can have your experts, including your supposed FBI expert tell us which clips matchup with which fighters? No? I didn't think so. Because neither the IBRO guys nor your fake expert could possibly do it.

Im reminded of the old Jim Jacobs story about how he would go around and show his films of fighters to the old timers who actually knew these guys and watched them live, in some cases they were their own managers, and he laughed when they couldn't identify them. But you want me to believe that some armchair experts can positively identify a film of a guy that nobody alive has ever seen fight. Ha! That's funny. You want me to believe that you can take a blurry, wavy, overexposed, vhs tape copy of a film from sometime before 1945 and tell me within a high degree of certainty that its Harry Greb... GTFO. Then you want me to believe that its Greb because the white fighter gets hit with a right hand. And because maybe its raining. And you say that the punch came in the same round as the one Greb got hit with but admit that the fight isn't complete (which without titles would make it impossible to tell what round it actually was. It could be a six rounder, it could be an 8 rounder, it could be a 15 rounder, it could even be a sparring session).
You want us to believe that even though its a film of boxing during the day that it depicts a night fight.

If you want to sit here and layout exactly what evidence you have that this is Greb and the provenance etc. Im all ears but you and I both know its not. Ive seen you pull this con twice too often. When you pulled that business with the Dempsey Malone ootage that was before your website etc. Back then you just sent out paper lists. I cant prove that. But you were dumb enough to advertise the Dempsey-Tillie Kid Herman footage as Dempsey sparring Greb in 1920 (did your forensic expert identify that one for you too??) on your website and now thats stuck there for everyone to see:

[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20120428072529/http://ringwise.com/[/url]

I can post that exact film, with the catalogue number that corresponds to it at the beginning of the film and match it to the catalogue entry at the University of South Carolina where this film is housed. Which begs the question: They own the film, how the hell do you think you have a copyright on those images??? These are you exact words from your site:

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]These never before seen images of the titanic Jack Dempsey - Harry Greb sparring session from 1920 come from the original film of that classic sparring session, found deep in the Ringwise vault of oldtime fights.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]These images clearly show the 25 pound lighter all time great Middleweight Champion, Harry Greb easily dominating , schooling, playing with the hardest hitting heavyweight Champion of all time Jack Dempsey."[/SIZE][/FONT]​

Sound familiar? "Never before seen" "coming from the original film" "found deeYoure ckind of like a carnival barker aren't you? p in the Ringwise vault" "These images CLEARLY show the 25 pound lighter all time great MW champion, Harry Greb" Uhh, no. They don't.

Then just over a year later:

[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20130911191041/http://ringwise.com/[/url]

Wow!! What an amazing find! And what luck! For 90 years no footage of Greb and the amazing, wonderful, fantastic Kurt finds not one but TWO films of Greb within two years... Whew, that's just incredible! Almost too good to be true...

But then this happens:

A few months later the same screenshots are posted yet under the link that had previously been listed as Greb sparring Bill Tate its now Greb fighting Allentown Gans:

[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20140422051916/http://www.ringwise.com/[/url]

No mention of how you can positively identify this as being Greb but somehow you could mistake a 5'10" 160 lb fighter for a 6'6" 220 lb fighter which is incredibly strange given your faith in the picture quality.

At what point did you change your mind and decide that this was an actual fight and not a sparring match and that while the white guy was still Greb the black guy somehow shrunk 8 inches, lost 60 pounds, and became Gans? Were you still selling this as the Tate footage until you made this miraculous discovery and if so how much were you asking? Hopefully not the $100,000 you were last year for "Greb-Gans," heaven forbid.

Wow! Incredible! That's a whopping four films you've advertised over the course of several years, that you've discovered of Greb. Boy if I didn't know any better Id say that's almost too good to be true... oh wait, three of those four films were misidentified by you (lets just call that an honest mistake), two can be positively identified beyond any question as absolutely NOT being of Greb at all. The most recent was already misidentified by you once but now its something completely different: daytime sparring against a huge HW turned into a nighttime fight against a MW) So you got it WAY wrong all of those other times but this time you are right...

So yeah, why don't you address some of these points because you haven't addressed any yet. Defend yourself. Lets hear it. Make your case. Hell bring your experts. Id love to hear their input. Something tells me you wont though, your probably too big for that sort of thing. Youd rather just let this blow over and be forgotten until the next film of Greb you "discover."

 

Look Klomptom aka Steven Compton aka the Grub is a waste of time talking to, if you oppose him he hates you for it, I have opposed him multiple time so his hate to me is multiplied by a factor of 3 or more. His tactic is to flood a thread with vast posts of him asserting he is an expert on this or that but I never see him provide evidence no matter how wild his claims may be. I cannot say if he is lying here or if he does have a case but I know it's pointless, he is the most arrogant egotistical poster in the history of boxing posters> he may have his good points, I don't know of any. He will try to discredit you and try to make you an object of derision, he will try to make you look like an idiot or worse, a con artist, I really hope you are not.

I want to see the film for myself, until I have I cannot say anything as to it's authenticity, I need proof, any claims I see that do not provide real proof I cannot believe in it. Klompton is a contrary individual, he sees you as an obstacle to his delusion that he is the greatest boxing expert to ever live, he has no time for Damon Runyan, Nat Fleischer and me.

 

I'm with Klompton on this, his refutes are too specific and too numerous to believe this is a Greb fight.

Never mind the fact the film is in day and the fight was at night.

The only way I could see this as being legit is if it is an actual film that Klompton has not seen himself thus making his refutes baseless.

The balance of probability lies with this being a con. And a horrific type of con that preys upon people's desire to see Greb fight.

 

not sure klomp has seen the fight, not sure he said he had. but you are right if this guy is conning us then that is rotten

 

Have you seen it. Yes or no? Please answer.

 

How bout a "still" image from the footage.

 

Originally Posted by Zolacat View Post
I am writing this because of the personal attacks and untrue statements written about me and the footage i have by a certain individual. I do not know this individual personally . I have never met this individual , I don't recall ever speaking with this individual .This individual admits he has never viewed the footage I have that is most likely Greb - Gans. It would be pointless to discuss the footage with someone who has not seen it. I have shown the footage to 10 very well known and respected boxing people , 5 from IBRO and 5 independent ones. 9 of the 10 people said the footage is Greb or most likely Greb, only one said he was not sure who it was but could not rule out Greb. If it is not Greb who is it? Some random comments from those who saw it, a well known trainer and TV commentator said "Yes 100% it Greb" A well known author ,writer and historian said "This is the find of the century" a longtime boxing collector /writer from the midwest said "I feel my life is now complete after seeing Greb in a real fight" Its a mystery to me why someone who claims to be an expert on Harry Greb would not want to see the footage and be elated it exists .Also there are two sides to every story, I can answer every inaccurate statement you have made about myself and the footage. God Bless, Kurt

I think what we are seeing here is sour gr@pes and jealousy from Klompton. He should be celebrating the find. Instead he rips a boxing research organization, and does whatever he can think of. You just have to wonder why...

When 9 out 10 ten boxing people say it is Greb, who is Klompton to say they are wrong? I've asked again if he has seen this film, not the alleged Bil Tate. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see Tate and Gans had very different builds and height.

 

Isn't that one of Klompton's points?

This film was previously passed off as being Bill Tate, then later it was changed to being Gans.