How many distractions and problems in Tysons life in 1990 led to the Douglas k.o

We will never know if he could have beaten Douglas even if fully prepared but one thing that is pretty certain, he wasn't prepared for that actual fight. It happens to fighters, they are not at their best and they might lose. Tyson gets an especially hard time from some regarding this. I get that people believe Douglas would have beaten him anyway because of his skill set, I don't get how they think Mike was 100% in that fight.

 

Very true. And this is the main difference that separates their levels in greatness. Longevity, for me, carries some credence in my ATG rankings. I do feel if Tyson had stayed focused he could've accomplished great feats rivaling Ali's even. That's a big if, since he fell off the rails rather quickly.

I have Tyson above Ali head to head these days. Might seem farfetched to some people.

 

Skill levels fall off, yes. Nothing magical about it. Human nature. Especially when you're not as hungry and neglect the things that made you that skillful a fighter. Your skills begin to decline, no? Hence the term "sharpen your skills".

 

It doesn't torpedo anything. You should watch Douglas vs McCall though.

I never said Tyson wasn't less than 100%. Robinson would always struggle with Turpin as their fights prove. Griffith never rematched Carter so that is a good example, another case of a man being able to best someone who should be better.

I didn't say Tyson could never have beaten Douglas, I said the exact opposite. I said had Tyson got the shot ahead of Holy he likely would have recaptured the belt before incarceration. Obviously that wouldn't mean anything to you because Douglas was horrifically trained for his first title defence.

What I did say is that Douglas, on his night, has the beating of Tyson. I stand by it, history showed it.

I had a similar debate on another website about Moore and Chase/Wade.I was convinced that if Moore wasnt fighting twice a month he'd have been more likely to win, but I have nothing to base that on. When it mattered, in the ring, they proved to be his superior. Just as Douglas did that night in Tokyo.

 

Douglas vs. Witherspoon?

 

That isn't quite what I thought you meant. His skills were always the same but he wasn't operating at a peak level. Had he rejoined Rooney post Ruddock and never got sent down, he could have returned to that peak.

The biggest hindrance to his career wasn't a lack of dedication or focus (most fighters become complacent at some point) it was getting sent down. Had he stayed out of jail we'd have been able to see him rematch Douglas and see him face off against a prime Holyfield. A lot of questions would be answered.

I'm not ruling out that a more focused Tyson beats a more focused Douglas, I'm saying it's speculative and contrary to actual history.

 

Meant McCall

 

Yeah I can image some arguments against Tyson beating Ali lol. Personally I have Ali winning on points but I don’t think its insane to believe Mike could win either, people forget his foot speed was no slouch. If Ali wins it wouldn't be an easy win that's for sure.

 

:good Gotcha. I feel Douglas would always be a good tussle for Mike, similar to Tucker and in other ways Holyfield and his pride.

I think the reason so many fans give Tyson a pass for the Douglas loss is their frustration and disappointment with the incredible amount of ability he let slip away. A rather huge drop off that hadn't really happened to any other fighter I can think of. He showed signs of getting back to form in his first fight with Ruddock - that despite a drop in skill he was the best heavyweight in the world if he showed up in shape against a determined opponent (one who was his most dangerous opponent to date). And then the prison stint...

 

Lewis v Rahman 1 was quite similar. Considered unbeatable and at the top of the world and then a former journeyman takes him out.

Those 4 years...

 

Douglas never fought Witherspoon...

A better Robinson KO'd Turpin in their rematch. Had Turpin fought Bobo Olson next instead of Robinson and then retired, it wouldn't follow that he always had Robby's number. I'm confident Griffith would have beaten Carter in a rematch.

Douglas, on that night, his best night by far and one of Tyson's worst, had the beating of Tyson. You did also say "prime for prime Douglas was too good for him." Well, I say we only saw a much lesser Tyson against the best Douglas.

I'm sure Douglas would have trained on cheeseburgers for a Tyson rematch and probably would have been KO'd in a few rounds. And I'm sure you'd be quick to point out that Douglas was not at his best. But then Douglas was never at his best aside from one fight which coincided with him facing a sub-par Tyson. The stars just aligned for him that one night.

 

Huge upset. I remember The Ring magazine did a piece on "The current greats of the game" profiling the 12 best fighters and they included Rahman instead of Lennox. I guess they kind of had to. After Douglas beat Tyson they planted Douglas 5th in the P4P rankings followed by Tyson at 6 and Holyfield at 7.

Yep, that 4 year layoff was tough. The belts were being passed around like hot potato. What really made me wish for Tyson's return was the sloppy Bowe-Hide fight that looked like slow motion.

 

the shame of it was Tyson was coming back nicely after the Douglas loss, people forget that as well, he didnt just give after Douglas, he was making his way back. Against Ruddock he showed some grit, people sometimes forget those fights when speaking of Tyson folding at any hint of resistance. I think even that 91 version of him would have given Holy trouble, he was ripping off some dangerous combinations and Ruddocks famed smash punch wasn't moving him, I wonder how Holy would have made a dent sometimes.

I generally rate Evander's chances highly against Tyson cause of his will and heart but sometimes its difficult to discount Mikes power and speed even after he slipped a bit by 91.

 

Agree with every word.

 

I meant McCall.

Yes he caught him but it was a very tough fight for him. Tyson caught Douglas as well, just not enough to do the job (shame it wasn't 30 seconds earlier).

Yes when Douglas was at his very best and when Tyson was the unbeaten undisputed champ, Douglas was too good. Any talk of how a more prepared Tyson does is contrary to history.

There was a thread here a year or so back talking about the rematch people wanted most that never happened. I didn't hesitate in saying Tyson v Douglas. Had he undone that blemish it would be a great thing.

Maybe you just rate Tyson higher than me. I have him a top 5 HW, I just feel Douglas was wrong for him. Like how I have Ali number 1 but feel Norton was wrong for him.