Who do you think was the best middleweight titlist between Walker and Zale?

and *Jock McAvoy,

whom ALWAYS gets forgotten... the Lonsdale Belt was akin to a world title back then, and beyond his destruction of Babe Risko, he also accounted for L-HW cum HW Al McCoy & a honourable performance against ATG, L-HW John Henry Lewis, both whon faced Joe Louis in HW title tilts.

I believe these 5 were the toughest & most skilled of them all, with a good consideration of Gorilla Jones too.

a great, great Era for Middleweights!

 

The Lonsdale belt was never a world title and McAvoy never had a claim to the title. Non-title fights are just that especially when McAvoy weighed 168 to Risko's 161.

 

akin and the other two.

singleton.

 

McAvoy was a fine fighter but he didn't do much at world level at160lbs,imo.

 

well over 20 names, in over 40 fights from Middleweight - Heavyweight...

World Champions
Top 10 Contenders, and
World Classed Fringe Contenders

I'd say that 'much' enough.

 

Could you name 3 world class opponents he beat at 160lbs?
I'm guessing the best you could come up with would be:
Kid Tunero
Len Harvey
Ginger Sadd
That's not enough to get Joe Bamford on a par with the aforementioned imo.

 

Didn't Thil take the lineage with him?

Then lost to Apostoli?

Although Steel unified with Risko so I dunno.

Steel and Apostoli are the top two though, in their prime they were incredible talents. Steel was so consistent and dominant but Apostoli didn't half **** him.

 

I haven't looked at this in enough detail lately, but from memory Walker vacated the belt, NBA had a tourney, Gorilla Jones or Vince Dundee won the tourney, lost to Thil and he avoided defeat for years up until Apostoli.

As I say that's from memory.

I know during this era Steele was beating every man and his dog though.

On a slightly related note, the above limit fights **** me off, like Steel v Apostoli and that one at, was it BW or SBW with the legendary mexican guy and that ridiculous knock out artists but it was fought like half a pound above the limit. Times like that make lineage worth nothing.

 

Either Apostoli or Steele.

 

Steele

 

Billy Conn 6'1.5" 38 fights, Vince Dundee 5'8" 148 fights 2 fights from retirement picking up losses almost as frequently as wins. A victory for the ages. Teddy Yarosz, a pair of controversial split decisions. Young Corbett 5'7.5" and still beats him the first fight. Says on boxrec Oscar Rankins was 34-25-4 when Conn got a split decision over him. As for Babe Risko, it looks like he only won one fight in his last 13 and Conn caught him in that losing streak. The Apostoli wins look legit though they are above the middleweight limit.

 

Thil didnt quit to Broulliard. Thats what I mean about the American press being hard on him. If you watch those films close Broulliard clearly fouls him. The one foul is pretty brutal (i cant recall which fight it was though).

 

Really hard to know the exact fight which the break occurred. Its not really a fact known, Ill put when it most likely happened (in my theory) down below after this.

We know that there was definatley an injury (damaged cartilage where the ribs meet the breastbone) before the second Apostoli fight because it was pushed to January once Steele was examined by a doc and he found cartilage damage (most likely from the Overlin fight)

I dont think it was broken in Apostoli II as he fought 1 month later and again 14 days later, but the frequency of which he was fighting with damage may have worsened the injury and caused the break (most likely against Barth or in training after that fight) Steele did say he was "screwy" from the injury in the Apostoli fight. (but my theory is still that it was only injured more in that fight and not broken, which ill write more about down below) The injury most likely become more and more apparent as time went on as he was not letting up on training and fighting and was worsening the injury continually until the break, and even after the break. Until he finally had it checked out when he was feeling sluggish and his arms and legs were slowing down

The Apostoli loss will always be in some kinda mystery as to what exactly happened, Steele said it was broken before that fight, and he did fight on once he found out it was broken after Barth without giving it much rest to heal so its not totally inconceivable that it was broken by Apostoli and he just fought on, but most likely very unlikely it happened that way



My best idea of what really happened

Steele damaged his rib/breastbone cartilage knocking out Overlin ("Rib cartilage Injury can also occur due to undue and repeated pressure on the ribcage, especially in individuals involved in sports requiring swinging of the arms with extreme force. A sudden jerking movement of the chest can also cause a Rib cartilage Injury.")

Apostoli II pushed back because of the discovery, fights Apostoli with damage (most likely worsened in that fight, Apostoli was nailing him and hits will only worsen it (can explain why Steele was described bending over double from body shots & the extreme pain he seemed to be in) lots of body movement can cause alot of pain and it can make breathing hard

What was happening to Steele after the low blow, I really doubt was just from that, what he described and the way he was reacting to body shots and the pain he was in, really sounds like his injury was worsened a lot more (or broken) which is what caused all that.


Broken or not this fight will always have a mark next to it, so will their rivalry.