muhammad ali vs earnie shavers

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by kevin_1990, Sep 11, 2015.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well no your all high on heavies :yep
     
  2. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So you needed the sound off to clarify how easily Holmes best Ali?
     
  3. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Your card isn't off at all....Shavers won the fight. The point about watching with the volume down doesn't apply in this case...the announcers were calling it as if Ali were winning, based on the open scoring which affirmed as much. The judges said he was winning, so everyone bought it, even though it was clear that Shavers was blocking almost all of his punches and returning thunderous head shots in return. Earnie won it...it was just another Ali mind-fcuk, that's all. IF he told people to drink poison kool-aid, they would.
     
  4. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As promised here's my take so far after 7 rounds:

    Round 1: Ali (clear)

    Round 2: Shavers - Ali Landed absolutely nothing - and was rocked BIG TIME on 7 or 8 occasions - amazed Ali didn't go down in this round - verging on a 10-8 type round for Shavers.

    Round 3: Ali took a shellacking for 2 minutes 40 seconds failing at the rope a dope big time - did open up in last 20 seconds but hit nothing but arms apart from one hook - Shavers takes this round BiG

    Round 4: Ali taking a real beating - punching a little more in this round but again hitting nothing again but arms and getting rocked again and again in return - another Shavers round big

    Round 5: Ali suddenly dominates for the first time? Like a different fighter? What was he doing for the previous 3 rounds? Ali moving and jabbing for 3 minutes and Shavers can't even get close.

    Round 6: Cagey, lots of silly games from both and little action until halfway through the round each time Ali lays on the rope Shavers walks over to the opposite ropes and lays on them and waits for Ali in an attempt to embarrass Ali into fighting properly - gives up halfway though and goes back to clubbing away at Ali and Ali takes a drubbing on the ropes for the last minute so Shavers again as Ali again has gone back to doing absolutely nothing.

    Round 7: Great round for Shavers! He's obviously done his homework or is getting some good advice in his corner - he's not falling for any of Ali's tricks in this round - more than that he's actually getting around each little game Ali tries and is thoroughly out working Ali - Ali is giving this fight away altogether

    So after 7 rounds I have Shavers up 5 rounds to 2 - no close rounds at all - Ali won his 2 clearly and Shavers won his 5 clearly, 3 of them BIG
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Muhammad Ali UD15 Earnie Shavers.

    Both of them fight stupid in their own ways. Ali lands every single uppercut he throw in the fight but he inexplicably throws only about six. Shavers declines opportunities to attack Ali in the rope-a-dope when Ali invites him in. For some reason Earnie and his people decided that whenever Shavers was waved in he would go to the opposite corner and wait for Ali to come out. Shavers missed chances to land flush budy shots (of which he, too, threw about six) and also to punch Ali in the upper arm which he did only twice and looked a great plan to me.

    This was all a part of the Shavers strategy to box clever and get into the championship rounds with his limited long-fight experience. As Merchant pointed out, the point isn't to go 15 but to win. I genuinely believe that Shavers might have won here with a different fight plan, he didn't have to go crazy, in fact I love the conservative Shavers. He's more Carter than Benn here, a stalker rather than a bomber.

    As was the case with Norton, Ali stammered because of his inability to dance protractidly - he won every minute for which he did so and Shavers basically couldn't touch him - and his disregard for body punches. Shavers took advantage of this with a box-swarming style, stiff punches over the top of Ali's jab any time he threw it static, and a reliance on a ponderous right hand which he alternated between timing beautifully and swinging for ther rigging - probably dependent upon what Ali was doing if i'm honest.

    I thought the judges were hard on Shavers. In round seven he landed multiple hard shots and Ali flurried with punches that really didn't do much landing, but he got the nod. I laso disagreed with the judges on round 3 which they gave to Ali - in my opinion, Ali was still rattled from the bombs he swalloed in 2, which was by far the hardest he's ever been hit for me.

    He may have cost himself immortality in the 13th with his determination to be conservative on the ropes. In this round, Ali looks gunshy for the first and only time in his career and I believe Shavers may have really hurt him. Two prodding body punches is no way to follow up such an advantage. Hurt again in the 14th, Ali rallied beautifully in the 15th, one of the HW divisions great rounds for me. So:

    ALI: 1,5,9,10,11,12,15
    SHAVERS: 2,3,4,6,7,8,12,14

    ..i have it 8-7 for Shavers.

    But here's the rub. The official judges scorecards were being announced live on television. Supposedly Dundee had guys working for him to get the score to him after every round. This would have meant that after the 11th, Ali would have known that he only needed one more round to defend the title. The twelfth is an interesting one. I thought Shavers was winning it until the last minute, when Ali landed his hardest stuff of the fight to take the round on all cards, including mine.

    His interest in the fight drops off noticably after that and to say he is coasting is under-stating it. I think the story is probably true, Ali's demenour in the corner after such a close fight speaks to it also. Shavers was furious. Not a controversiol one though, for no better reason than the scoring was transparent - otherwise you can bet people would be crying about this.

    Important fight in that it proves, in Ken Norton's words, "that Ali can take a shot as well as any HW champion we've ever had." I enjoyed Norton's commentary.
     
  6. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just scored it. First, what a dreadful fight. That's an hour of my time I won't get back, I guess. So many missed opportunities on both sides, both of whom seemed content to fight only sporadically.

    Ali: 1, 3, 5, 9, 10, 11, 15.
    Shavers: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14

    143-142 Shavers.
     
  7. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Second half from me now -

    Round 8: Ali looks tired and jaded, Shavers just tapping away steadily not wearing himself out just keeping busy while Ali stands flat footed with his guard up like a big punching bag - Shavers is literally able to a bit of a breather and just tap away at Ali at his own speed - Ali suddenly tries a flurry with a minute to go but nothing on them whatsoever just hitting arms and Shavers laughs at his effort - Shavers is finding this easy. Shavers continues steadily working while Ali is just trying to hold his glove out like a wrestler to keep him off or grabbing as he's coming in - he should try punching a bit that works better - Shavers round clearly.

    Round 9: Shavers starts like the last round tapping away getting his little taps in round the arms into Ali's unguarded sides. Ali literally spends about a minute doing the silly holding his glove out taunting him routine but it's another minute where Ali has not even thrown a punch and then when Shavers counters big Ali starts doing the jelly legs routine blatantly giving away that he felt that one.
    Ali goes back to laying on the ropes - Shavers is ticked off for literally stopping punching to literally tug Ali physically off the ropes - maybe the ref should be telling Ali to do something rather than telling Shavers off for tryi to force him to fight properly. Ali opens up late and this time lands a handful of heavy shots through the guard but it's not enough Shavers again counters BIG and rocks Ali who goes into the jelly legs routine again Shavers finishes the round landing a huge right in close while Ali is pretending to polish the top of his bald head with his glove - Shavers round again.

    Round 10: Ali is back on his twinkle toes again and is suddenly doing well again, making Shavers walk onto some good punches. Mid round Shavers does land some hard shots but really it's all Ali in this round as he out works Shavers down the straight - Ali you can tell is really digging in now - he's obviously been told he's letting the fight get away from him - Ali round clear.

    Round 11: Ali is up on his toes again!? Shavers can't live with Ali when he dancing like we know he can - Ali spearing him with long shots - Shavers missing more now and looking a little tired for the first time - Ali takes this round clearly again.

    Round 12: Tables have turned seemingly, Ali again in command at the start of this round, on his toes landing numerous punches and Shavers now is the one throwing and missing one hay maker after another for the first minute of the round. Shavers takes until the last minute of the round to get close enough but some nice combos from Ali now- he's putting his weight behind his punches now so much so that Shavers genuinely acknowledges some good shots from Ali. Ali round clear.

    Round 13: Shavers staggers Ali big time on the ropes n the first 20 seconds of the round - Ali is hurt and has suddenly regressed to his earlier status as human punch bag - Shavers lands MIGHTY punches all through this round - this is a horrible round for Ali - he is too brave - in hindsight it is difficult to watch when Ali is taking shots like he is in this round - knowing how he's ended up very bad beating Alo takes in this one - Shavers round big.

    So with 2 rounds to go I now have it Shavers ahead 8 rounds to 5 and again all rounds are pretty conclusive - Ali needs needs a knockout in the last two or at least a 10-8 in one for a draw...

    Stay tuned
     
  8. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The thing here is that although quite a few have Shavers winning the fight regarding their scorecards it's mainly only by one round, so really was the decision that controversial?
    It was a close fight!
     
  9. kevin_1990

    kevin_1990 Member Full Member

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    thanks for all the reply's yes it was just the fact i am new to scoring fights i don't let the commentators decide who won the round for me straight after the round before the commentators state there opinion on who won the round i mark down who i'm giving it to. there score card was really different to mine seemed like they had Ali winning comfortable and into the last few rounds shavers only chance of winning was to KO Ali. I had it 8-7 to Shavers
     
  10. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Last 2 rounds now

    Round 14:
    Ali starts BIG! He is looking for that finish that I have him needing in the last 2 rounds! Could this be the moment!?! The answer is a resounding no!
    By the minute mark he looks to have shot his bolt and punched himself out - his effort looks to have come to nothing as Shavers has now turned the tide and is now hurting Ali BIG himself! One by one Shavers is detonating his humongous right hands off Ali's jaw and rockin Ali again and again - the punches are really maki Ali sag but he is fighting on heart reminds me at times like one of the Ali-Frazier fights this round the five and take but Shavers just won't be denied and it has to be his round with Ali hurt and possibly the ropes being his only escape - at the end of the round Ali looks completely spent and Dundee comes into the centre of the ring to guide him back and get to work on him as quick as he can - definitely a Shavers round.

    Round 15: Shavers starts like a steam train and go right to work in the 15th and final round determined to go out with a bang! And he doesn't let up for the entire round! At one point Ali seems to hurt him momentarily but he can't be denied and keeping wailing away barrelling forward both hands flailing ignoring anything coming back and hurting the weakening Ali badly with every other punch - he is just not gunna let Ali win the last round - Ali is finding on heart trying and trying to nail him and stop him with something coming in but nothing seems to stop him every other punch is rocking Ali back on his heels again and again - WAIT!! suddenly in the last 10 seconds Ali has Shavers suddenly hurt!! Shavers is gone he almost out on his feet but the bell ends the fight before Ali can finish it and it is not enough Shavers wins the last round widely again!

    And Shavers takes the fight 11 rounds to 5 and is the new heavyweight champion of the world - Ali well beaten and looks like a shadow of himself.
     
  11. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But that is the story of Ali's career. Numerous close fights and he always got the benefit of the doubt. Probably infuriates someone like De La Hoya who always got the short end or at least half the time- he did get Whitaker and Quartey.

    Shavers
    Young
    Norton 3
    Jones

    All hotly contested encounters.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    eh?
     
  13. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :D:lol::patsch my bad 10 rounds to five for Shavers but still - it's insane was looking at some of you guys rounds scored and some of the rounds where Ali was being so brutally beaten about some of you scored for Ali!??! WTF!? Some of you need your freaking eyes testing you really do :patsch
     
  14. Monogamous STD

    Monogamous STD Ya know, Quasimoto predicted all this. Full Member

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    I know a lot of people considered this controversial but I thought Ali was in control for the majority of the fight. Got really lazy and shaken up a few times in the way that got Lewis starched when he did it with Rahman but he still collected himself each time he took a big haymaker and went back to nullifying Shavers. Don't remember my exact score but I had Ali up. I think even Shavers said he didn't best him.

    Weird to me about calling it dreadful. Always thought it was a good fight. Seen it a few times.
     
  15. marcianofrazier

    marcianofrazier Member Full Member

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    Shavers winning round 15? No sur.