Sam Langford vs Razor Ruddock

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Aug 8, 2015.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I can’t give you a definite answer one way or the other on this.

    What I would say however, is that hand speed in not era dependant, because genetics are the key component.

    I see no theoretical reason, why you couldn’t get a big guy with the speed of Ruddock, in the early bareknuckle era.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    This is what some contemporary opponents and observers had to say about Langford:

    Fireman Flynn

    “I fought most of the heavyweights, including Dempsey and Johnson, but Sam could stretch a guy colder than any of them. When Langford hit me it felt like somebody had slugged me with a baseball bat. It was like taking ether. You just went to sleep.”

    “If you ask me, Il say that the hardest hitter I ever went up against was Sam Langford”.

    Gunboat Smith

    On being asked who was the best he ever fought (he fought Dempsey and Wills).

    “That’s an easy one. Sam Langford and nobody came close to being as good as he was at his peak”

    “Langford vs Dempsey both in their prime would have been bad news for Dempsey. He could be hit with a right hand and if anybody had a right hand it was the tar baby. I will go further and declare that Langford would have waded through every heavyweight champion we’ve had including the current soldier boy Joe Louis. Louis is a great champ, but he is inclined to get hot and bothered when the going gets rough. Langford was as cool as an iceberg every minute that he was in there. He never lost his head.”

    Joe Jeanette

    “Sam would have been champion any time Johnson would have given him a fight and Johnson knew it better than anybody”

    “How that baby could hit. Nobody else could hit like that. Well, maybe Joe Louis could but Sam only weighed 160lbs. Joe Louis was about 195.”

    Jack Blackburn

    “My boy (Joe Louis) is still two years removed from his prime. By then I will have him in Langford’s class.”

    Joe Williams

    On being asked how Sam Langford would do against Joe Louis.

    “Just too much of a fighter. There wasn’t anything Sam couldn’t do and if he had a weakness then nobody ever found out what it was. I have plenty of respect for Joe Louis as a hitter, but I can’t see him hitting Sam hard enough to make him mad”

    Harry Wills

    “He was a real professional, the kind of fighter you’d like to be but know that however hard you try you’ll never make it. Sam never made a mistake, he always held command and when he knocked me out in New Orleans, I thought I had been killed.”

    “He was marvellous as a fighting man, I'd venture to say unbeatable in his prime.”

    John L Sullivan

    “Jim Jeffries has gone to the place that forbids him from facing a young strong fellow like Jack Johnson and he will never enter the ring again. Sam Langford is the worlds best and he can trim Johnson, Ketchel, Papke and the rest one after the other. Johnson knows this and is sidestepping his fellow fighter at every turn of the road.”
     
  3. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I bthink we need toi distinguish a fighter by where he was inhis career, especally from the old days when they fought often & with large physical problems like gathering blindness.

    Especially when comparing peak versions...Would you use Ruddock NOW in his comeback attempt, however healthy he may be & with all the advantages of modern training?

    I think it extreme to say Rddock was more skilled than Johnson. Recall that some techniques used then were accomodating different rule sets & refereeing.

    Now it is ALSO unlikely a guy who would be a small CW today could beat a large ATG. The question is couls a small ATG beat a 2nd tier modern guy.

    When the size differential is this great, it is hard to pick Langford against a focused Ruddock.

    Regardless. I am glad folks have "evolved" to be more respectful & decent to each other during this thread.
     
  4. Ali Frazier

    Ali Frazier KO ARTIST Full Member

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    You want me to level with Ruddock because he's big and modern totally disregarding a mediocre chin and stamina issues???
    ...ok
     
  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    No, you go with the 5'7, 165-lb pressure fighter who stalks opponents with his hands low. That man will surely defeat Razor Ruddock.
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Yeah, how could the guy who is quite likely the greatest fighter ever replicate a Dave Jaco performance.
     
  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    You should be ashamed of yourself! (either for being disingenuous or uninformed). A young Ruddock was dominating Jaco even though he was fighting with then untreated asthma issues.
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Yeah, that's a nice story.

    Have you seen the entire fight? Jaco is landing sloppy but effective rights from the second round on and he eats huge shots from Donovan.


    I have heard everything from asthma to respiratory infection to the flu but these issues never seemed to surface in other fights. Meanwhile, Jaco was KO'd by 18 fighters.

    Let's not count Langford out on this one. He was by far the better fighter.
     
  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I've been reading that it was a serious asthma problem that had since been treated for as long as I've paid attention to Ruddock (starting around the time of the Tyson fights). Why use small, green, unhealthy Ruddock as the basis of a historical matchup?

    Doesn't really matter how great Langford was compared to the smaller and more rudimentary "heavyweights" of his time--his tininess and style would get him slaughtered in this fight.
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Sam was able to beat Harry Wills, Jim Johnson, Sam McVea, Sandy Ferguson and Bill Tate... modern sized, elite heavyweights. In fairness, Wills was able to turn the trick on an ageing Sam, also. Furthermore, tho shorter in stature Sam had greater reach than Tyson who twice (more or less) beat Ruddock.

    I am not saying I favor Sam in this bout but I am certainly not ready to concede his defeat as a foregone conclusion. Sam was crafty, quick and hit like a ton of bricks. Ruddock could be KO'd and Sam could KO anyone.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Was Ruddock even better than the big heavyweights that Langford was beating?

    Some of them made it into the Hall of Fame, and I don’t think that there is any danger of this happening to Ruddock.
     
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Honest question: Do you watch any fights or do you mostly just read about the legends and their exploits? What advantages, pray tell, would a man like Harry Wills have against Razor Ruddock?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBOUmkoI44w
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    "Elite" relative to the times. The sweet science has evolved in leaps and bounds since fights like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pay6XBYfnRc
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Would you take Muhammad Ali’s loss to Leon Spinks, as a marker of what he was capable of in his prime?
     
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I have seen Jack Dempsey who saw Harry Wills in his prime and was wise enough to be afraid of him.