How good was prime George Foreman?

Not mutually exclusive. A great win for Ali because he exposed Foreman's severe limitations as a boxer in a bold, creative way that nobody else would have imagined trying. We can acknowledge that without pretending that Foreman fought a good fight or that the rope-a-dope would have worked against Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson or even a Tim Witherspoon...

 

Most boxers wouldn't have been able to do that against this Foreman.
This was before George's psyche was messed up because this fight is what caused it.

 

Not many boxers of different styles and abilities were given the chance to try this or any other approach. He beat a Frazier who really didn't have any meaningful wins afterward and a notoriously chinny Norton. That's not exactly a deep and broad resume.

 

Add to that, Ali did much more than just lay on the ropes in this fight. The fights wasn't close and Muhammad Ali was out boxing Foreman all throughout the first seven rounds leading up to the knockout.

 

-George KOs Louis in 3 rounds or less total mismatch
-Ditto for Walcott
-Rocky would have a few moments but eventually George takes out Marciano in about 6 or 7
-Patterson gets the Frazier treatment(dribbled around the ring like a basketball)
-Liston get sparked in a slow paced fight with Foreman out jabbing him.
-Holmes fight is 50/50 Holmes gets out of the 5th and he's golden
-Tyson like Patterson gets the Frazier treatment
-Holyfield gets KO'd in a few rounds, total mismatch.
-Bowe is a war but I think Foreman is able to out jab Bowe and eventually sparks him
-Gets Lennox out in first round after badly wobbling him with the very first punch that lands clcean
-Ditto for Wlad
-Vitali chin with stands the early blitz by Foreman and eventually stops a gassed George in the late rounds

 

He wasn't as good as he was hyped to be after the Frazier and Norton wins but he wasn't as bad as the Ali fight suggested either. Ali is always a fighter with his speed and flashy style that can make you look bad, look clumsy, look slow etc, and Foreman clearly didn't fight with the smartest strategy that night.

Foreman was a prodigious talent. What he lacked in ring smarts and technique he made up for in raw natural talent. He had awesome thudding power in either hand, size, tremendous strength and a long, heavy thudding jab that was very underrated. Like Vitali he wasn't pretty to watch but just like Vitali he was very effective.

He had his first fight in Jan 1967, 21 months later he was Olympic champion. 6 years and 4 days after he had his first amateur fight he was the heavyweight champion of the world. Anthony Joshua would have been heavyweight champion 2 years ago with the same progression as Foreman, probably only Tyson had a faster rise from their first fight to the title. Foreman's natural ability was clearly tremendous and to do it in an era as good as the 70's made it all the more remarkable.

70's Foreman was a great heavyweight champion but a flawed one, if you had the speed and style and durability you could beat him, if you tried to stand up and fight him you were in trouble.

 

rope a dope is a myth. it didnt work for Frazier or Jose Roman

Foreman was out of shape in the Ali fight

Tim Witherspoon would've exited in two brutal rounds. too slow, too stiff (see Bonecrusher Smith 1986)

 

I think George Foreman fits into the similar category as Jerry Quarry, the young version was lacking in experience and when he gained it he was improved but not prime. Foreman was powerful but flawed and lacking in stamina and the younger version was fed mediocre fighters and non-punchers, when he fought a so-called puncher Lyle (who was far from an elite puncher and overrated as a puncher) he was dropped and almost stopped. I love George and recognize his strengths but also his weaknesses

 

I suppose Jimmy Young beats all these guys, too.

 

I've always liked the man both in the ring as well as his public personality. His resume is a fine one consisting of an Olympic gold medal, two lineal world titles, a terrific KO percentage, wins over several undefeated fighters, contenders, and two unbeaten heavyweight champions who were either prime or close enough to it. Not to mention a comeback that was never really matched, as I don't think any man has ever taken TEN years off and returned to do what he did. A truly brilliant career, great fighter and great man..

 

thumbsup

 

Prime Foreman had great strength, power and a killer instinct in the ring, but man was he a sloppy fighter. Ali made him look like a complete doofus in Zaire. George looked amateurish and uncoordinated, flailing around the ring like he did that night.

 

Maybe by holding on and crying foul the whole time...

 

:huh

 

:roll:

:think

:huh

But ... he DID win THE title in the 90s.