Why do people judge the old time fighters so harshly?

so lets talk boxing then Foxy?

lets leave the kids and s-e-x out of our posts from now on and save everyone at this forum from having to read our hate of each other shall we??

I apologize to you for mentioning your grand son,,,, You were the one that threatened your grand son would beat me up BEFORE I then used the innocent little guy back upon you Foxy, that was wrong on my part, I justified mistakenly that because you threatened he would kill me I could disrespect him and you and that's not fair to the little guy and I am sorry to you and the forum for going over the line telling you what I did after you told me I should be cleaning the end of your co-ck. I thought it was funny at the time and I admit I did laugh about it but I am sorry about that and admit I shouldn't of misused the little guy and included him in your jokes about how I should be cleaning the end of your co-ck.

Foxy, if you want to continue on with the child stuff, go ahead.
If you want to track down my ISP address go ahead.

Regardless, I am going to flame you about boxing related ideas from now on and leave the children out of it as we are both creeping the forum out because we hate each other so much and I don't want to do that.

So lets talk Tyson Foxy, do you think your hatred for Tyson biases you from talking about what a great fighter he was simply because you don't want to give him his due because of your hate? For instance, where do you rank Tyson all time Foxy? I have him in my top five in his prime even though I admit that he fell far before and after Douglas.

So where do you even rank him?

 

Thanks; just downloaded a copy. Will try to check it out some time soon.

 

interesting post about that book :bbb

only guy I recall abandoning a JAB and getting away with it was RJJ and even he used it a little bit.

 

Why don’t you buy it?

I don’t mind you being critical of my ideas, but please don’t dismiss them just because they contradict the idea that you came to the table with.

At the very least you must acknowledge that fights were scored very differently back then.

 

I don't buy it for at least three reasons.

1) I don't buy that any type of scoring system would deter boxers from using modern jab techniques instead of the frequently off-balance, immobile, 1-at-a-time jabs used by old greats.

2) In any case, you still haven't demonstrated that the scoring system was fundamentally different. In fact, the only proof you've offered involves a fight where a man won a decision by outjabbing his opponent!

3) I have not seen any indication that old heavyweights had the footwork, balance, and jabbing technique necessary to jab like modern jabbers.

 

No I don't believe the jab has improved significantly at all, other than the fact that more are thrown due to the size of the gloves in the modern era, as has already been pointed out to you.

 

Firstly I accept your " attempt " at an apology duck egg, but even then you can't leave your penchant for histrionics and lies out of it can you?

There is no " lets leave kids and s.e.x out of it " duck egg. For " lets " to be relevant we both would have to had those weird thoughts. I didn't, you did.

Secondly there was no mention of my little fellow killing you duck egg, rather I said I'd back him to give you a slap.

You then mentioned a 2 year old grandson of your own. To which I replied I would discourage my 4 year old from bullying a 2 year old, but would encourage him to slap you.

Are you able to see the difference here duck egg? I was saying I regard you as not worth much, I did NOT say the same about any member of your family.

Finally, if I thought you knew anything on the subject matter I would discuss boxing with you, but you don't seem to have given much evidence thus far of any expertise. Where you rank Tyson is of little or no consequence to me, as I consider him to be the most over rated fighter of all time.

I am far more interested in the addiction to either booze, and / or drugs of his opponents ( never mind the state of their mental health ) prior to being destroyed by Douglas in his prime aged 23 than I am in reading the histrionic nonsense written by his apologist fanboys, about his own so called " troubles ".

So as I wrote in the first paragraph, with your penchant for histrionics duck egg, I can quite easily believe you would rate Tyson so highly, all the moronic drama would greatly appeal to someone like you.

Once again. Attempted apology accepted.

EDIT. By the way I don't hate you duck egg. I don't consider you to be worth the effort.

 

thanks for accepting my apology foxy :good

so if Tyson is over rated in your opinion I accept that Foxy, once again I ask you were would you rate him as a ATG heavy list? If you claim he is over rated and you rank him in your top 10 then that really isn't that much farther than where I rank him. However, if you rate him below top 20 of all time then it would make sense why you are so down on Tyson.

So once again,, I ask you a simple boxing straight forward boxing question, where do you rank Tyson on a ATG list Foxy?

 

You comprehension skills could do with honing duck egg. I said I believe he is the most over rated fighter of all time. I don't take too much notice of p4p or ATG lists generally, so I am hardly likely to have someone I believe to be highly over rated on one even if I did set any stall by them.

I would rather you answered this. Starting with Quick Tillis, and working your way up to Douglas, how many of Tyson's opponents were,

1. In their primes.

2. A class fighters

3. Not addicted to either booze or drugs.

4. Of a stable mentality.

I would be interested in your criteria for this top 5 " ATG ranking " that you subscribe to.

 

How very true. I just feel many posters on here do no understand that the fight conditions and rules had a significant influence on the old fighter styles, hitting 100lb heavy bags with 10 oz gloves at full force will damage your hand let alone a 200 lb fighter with 4 oz gloves.

 

ok first of all foxy, i never mentioned lb for lb rankings so ;ets not even mention that.

second of all i don't place too much into ATG rankings either BUT i do have a opinion of who might be able to beat who and i am sure you do as well.

How do i rank my ATG list then? I simply rank it loosely on who i think would win head to head. For instance i think Dempsey would be too small for Tyson. I think rocky would be a little too small and slow for Tyson. So i rank Tyson ahead of them. Why? Only one reason Foxy, i think if you put the best prime Rocky in the ring head to head against a prime Tyson, Tyson wins. This is was not meant as rocket science foxy, only guess work.

All i asked you is a simple question. You declined to answer saying that you don't rate Tyson whatsoever, lol,,,

let me ask you a simple question before i answer your question. Are you telling me you NEVER created even a rough fantasy list of who you think would be your top 10 ATG heavys? In all your years here at ESB?

You realize that if you for instance think Ali would of destroyed Tyson,, well that's a partial LIST right there, you therefore rank Ali above Tyson. That's all i am getting at Foxy. If you think Louis would of beaten Tyson, that's a partial list right there. So now you know my criteria. (as if that was so hard for you to figure out on your own foxy, lol)

Ok, now onto the other questions that you would rather have me answer while you refuse to answer my single question for yet another post, lol

Foxy said, "I would rather you answered this. Starting with Quick Tillis, and working your way up to Douglas, how many of Tyson's opponents were,

1. In their primes.

2. A class fighters

3. Not addicted to either booze or drugs.

4. Of a stable mentality.

well, Berbick was not far off prime, Tucker was close to prime in fact i think he looked pretty good in the Tyson fight, Bonecrusher was close to prime having just blasted out Witherspoon. Biggs was certainly in his prime. Spinks was not too far from his prime even though he was fairly new at Heavy. As well Bruno was essentially in his prime.

Now let me guess, Foxy is going to say that at least Berbick and Tucker were drug addicts so they don't count??? Well i don't buy that. They were good and powerful fighters regardless of their drug battles. The fact is you can knock down all the fighters i just mentioned in one way or another. I don't claim any of the guys Tyson beat between Tillis and Douglas are ATGs at heavy, however, i do think they are a very solid bunch of good powerful heavyweights that were the best of their time.

My overall point is you don't RATE Tyson imo simply because you don't LIKE him and to me that should have nothing to do with where you rank him. I don't like Floyd May. Why not? Because i am biased, he rubs me the wrong way for reasons that i don't claim to be valid, he just bugs me. However, for me to then RATE him lower as a ATG then he deserves is BIASED of me. Understand my thinking Foxy? I recognize that and thus to be honourable and fair i have to rank him as one of the best ever because he is one of the best ever regardless to my personal biased and complaints against him.

So now that my simple criteria is clear, where would you rate Tyson or do you still refuse to rate him because as you state he is over rated?

 

Do you even understand your own nonsense duck egg? Lets get this straight. As far as you are concerned h2h fights determine who is or isn't an ATG fighter.

Good luck with that.

Allow me to explain this to you duck egg. I could easily form a list of " ATG " fighters if I believed in such cr ap, of 20 fighters and not one Heavyweight would enter the top ten, then I'd have have Ali at eleven more non Heavies until Lewis, then possibly Joe Louis at 20 if I was struggling to find lower weight guys I considered to be better than him. But I don't think I would be.

Unlike North Muricans I don't consider boxing to be solely about Heavyweights, in fact I consider most of the dross served up by Heavyweights to be the equivalent of two drunks squabbling over a take away kebab.

So now to the question I asked you. I'll try to make that as easy as possible for you, but bear in mind I have no interest in your opinions on guys who were addicted to booze or drugs, and how that affected their ability to fight. Suffice to say booze and or drugs are not freely given in the corners are they? ( Not legally anyway )

So,

Tillis booze, and drugs
Green drugs, and a nutter
Gross B level
Hosea Not even B level
Boyd See above
Frazier Novice
Ribalta B level
Ratliff Who
Berbick A complete crank, hence ended up murdered by members of his own family.
Smith B+ level
Thomas Junkie
Tucker Booze and Coke
Biggs Good win
Holmes Inactive for more than 18 months and 38 years old
Tubbs Drugs and booze
Spinks Good win
Bruno B+ level on a good day
Williams Already destroyed by 36 year old Weaver

Douglas. Destroyed both the fighter and more importantly the myth that you believe warrants ranking in the top 5 Heavies of all time.

As for your waffling on about Mayweather. Wtf has he got to do with anything? I don't care less whether or not you hate the guy.

If you believe there is any comparison between him and Tyson as far as boxing is concerned, you really ought to check out that mental hospital you were talking about earlier.:rofl

 

so you rate Ali first, then Lewis and then Louis of heavyweights.

So that is your top 3 Heavys. That wasn't so hard now was it Foxy?? Getting you to answer a question is like pulling teeth

again, I didn't ask you about lb for lb lists or lower weight guys.

As for me going on about Floyd you missed my point dude, then after you missed my point in your confusion you told me I needed to go to a mental hospital again, lol,,,

Was my point about Floyd really that hard for you to understand Foxy? My point was its not FAIR of me to rate Floyd lower as a ATG at lightweight (up to ww) because I don't like him. As you detest Tyson my point was obviously that you shouldn't rate Tyson less at heavyweight just because you don't like his character. I realize Floyd and Tyson are different weights foxy:thumbsup and are very different fighters, sorry if that confused you :good

Now as far as your list,,,

Tillis booze, and drugs
Green drugs, and a nutter
Gross B level
Hosea Not even B level
Boyd See above
Frazier Novice
Ribalta B level
Ratliff Who
Berbick A complete crank, hence ended up murdered by members of his own family.
Smith B+ level
Thomas Junkie
Tucker Booze and Coke
Biggs Good win
Holmes Inactive for more than 18 months and 38 years old
Tubbs Drugs and booze
Spinks Good win
Bruno B+ level on a good day
Williams Already destroyed by 36 year old Weaver


good work Foxy, you make a fair point that his victims were not as impressive as is most likely thought of as the "norm" in boxing circles,,,,

however, I never really felt his level of opposition was great in the first place as imo he was only in his prime for a few short years before he began to slip rather than mature as many pro boxers tend to do.

notice that you rank smith and Bruno (two of the guys I mentioned) as B plus fighters, B plus is pretty close to A in my book Foxy. Thus we really are not that far apart on those two guys at least :rasta ,,,,as well the other guys I mentioned you agreed with Spinks and Biggs by typing, "good wins" so you agree with me on those 2 as well :deal

which leaves Tucker and Berbick as the only two others I mentioned,,,just because one was a crank and the other used booze and drugs does not mean those 2 Tyson wins should be discredited from what they were. What were they? Solid wins against 2 B plus or A grade heavyweights in their primes.

you asked me to show you any grade A fighters defeated Tyson in between his Tillis fight and his Douglas fight, I showed you 6.

Plus notice you added in all the guys I already left out Foxy??? I obviously left them out for a reason dude, stay focused :bbb

Those are 6 solid wins Foxy. That's pretty good :deal

 

Firstly B+ is not A grade. Hence B+. Assholes are close to pussies duck egg, but ( like you ) one is full of sh it, whilst the other can be as sweet as honey.

I don't rate Heavyweights at all duck egg, are you too moronic to understand that. I pointed out to you quite clearly that NO heavyweight would be in my top ten best fighters of all time. The fact that I believe Ali to be better than Lewis is much like a choice between sh it and syphilis duck egg, neither are fit to carry great fighters like Robinson and Duran's jock straps.

NO I don't consider Bruno and Smith to be good wins, because at best they are only B+ grade fighters, so don't try to make your opinions of them the same as mine.

I give him credit for 2 good wins duck egg not 6. As for your worthless opinion of how a guy is affected by drugs, booze or mental health problems duck egg, why don't you take it up with other Tyson nut huggers who like to claim those were the ONLY reason he was beaten up, humiliated, then KTFO by Buster Douglas.

I am sure you will all have fun together.nut:hi:

Why are you waffling on about Mayweather yet again duck egg? I have less than no interest on your opinion of Mayweather duck egg. If you want to give a breakdown of Mayweathers opponents, as I have of Tyson's feel free. Other than that wtf are you whining about?:roll: