Holyfield's first 22 opponents v Jeffries' first 22

Jeffries was a precocious talent but he enjoyed huge weight advantages over his opponents.
Choynski 59lbs
Corbett 27&30lbs
Fitz 47&39lbs
Sharkey 22&20+lbs.
Griffin 40lbs
Armstrong 25lbs
Finnegan 60lbs!
Two others near his size:
Goddard 194lbs, was 40 years old.
Jackson195lbs,was 37 and a tubercular, alcoholic shell.
The only man of any class near his size he beat was 200lbs Ruhlin whom Fitz had half killed in his last fight.

Factor in Corbett and Fitz were coming out of a couple of years retirement in all cases.
They might be better names on paper , but in reality their time had come and gone.


Holyfield was a fighter who bulked up to face the bigger heavyweights of his era, for that reason I have to give him the nod here.

Tillis 8lbs
Thomas 12lbs
Rodriguez 14lbs
Dokes 17lbs

As an aside Corbett at 33 and 35 would not do well with Holyfield, nor would the 167lbs CHoynski or the 185lbs 5'8", wide open Sharkey.

I would expect Evander to beat Jeffries head to head too.

 

Six of Jeffries opponents were inside the lightheavyweight limit , three were under 170pounds. Five of his opponents had a combined total of 23fights between them.

 

Jim Jeffries Is recognized by most as a legitimate all time great heavyweight, but the fact that Evander's cruiserweight record gives his resume a run for its money says how truly excellent Holy was.

 

He isn't in my top ten.

 

Nor mine. I acknowledge him as an ATG but not of the top 10 variety. Too many champions with greater achievements have come and gone over the past 100+ years..

 

We would have to go with Jeffries, if only because he more or less cleaned out the heavyweight division, during these 22 fights.

Jeffries retired with little unfinished business, while Holyfield’s best work was still ahead of him, after 22 fights.

 

Jeffries fought several hall of fame fighters, and had a tough early fight right out the gate. Holyfield isn't going un-defeated here.

Keep in mind Holyfield himself started out as a light heavyweight in the Olympics..

 

McVey,

Are you aware that Holyfield started out as a light heavyweight in the Olympics. His professional debut weight was just 177.5 pounds, which is even lighter than most of Jeffries best opponents, and likely + or - 4 pounds of the weight of Joe Choynski who KO Jack Johnson cold in 3 rounds.:deal

Just a hunch you were not aware, otherwise a balanced poster like yourself would mention this. Hint of sarcasm.

In addition Holyfield was shall we say enhanced by various substances unavailable to the fighters in Jeffries time.

 

No he only cleaned out the white division, he did not defend against the black challengers such as:
Denver Ed Martin,SamMcVey,&Jack Johnson.

Jeffries two best challengers were coming out of 2 years retirement and both were past their best one was 33 and 35, one 37 and 39.

 

Jeffries beat Peter Jackson, Hank Griffin2x, and Bob Armstrong ( with a broken thumb in round one ). He cleaned out the best of the black heavies before he became champion, then toyed with Griffin as a champion.

Many of the fighters you named were not highly ranked in 1903. Sam Mcvey was just 18 years old in 1903 by the way.

By 1905 the above group was better, but by then Jeffries had quit the game and Hart defeated Johnson to claim the #1 spot.

If you go by reported fights, Jeffries has a KO over the glass bodied and jaw Denver Ed Martin.

 

Of course I'm aware he, along with Whitaker,Breland etc made the front page of the Ring magazine . He was the Duva's flagship signing. Holyfield won the cruiserweight title from Qawi in his 12th fight, he was in tougher fights than Jeffries in their respective early days.


Here's Jeffries first 5 fights.


Henry Baker 8-6-4
Van Buskirk 4-0-2
Griffin 6-0-1
Long debut
Lorraine debut





Here's Holyfield's
Byarm 9-1-2
Winbush 14-8-0
Brown 18-35-2
Rivera 12-1-0
Booze 10-3-2



Holyfield never fought inside the lightheavyweight limit.


Holyfield's first 5 opponents had 115 fights between them ,Jeffries31!

Any PED's available to Holyfield were also available to his opponents and its irrelevant to the discussion anyway.
The fact that Holyfield turned pro at177lbs is also irrelevant.

 

This is BS. Jeffries was offered a huge guarantee to fight McVey after McVey kod Martin, he ignored it.
Jackson was a walking relic.
Jeffries was terrified of defending his title against a black challenger lest he lose it , and many times reiterated he would retire before doing so.

Jeffries never fought Martin, and he never mentioned him in three biographies. Keep licking that vanilla ****.

 

I guess it comes down to how you view these potential contenders.

There is a small window of overlap with Johnson and McVea, I see them more as the first of the next generation, than the last of Jeffries generation.

In that sense Martin is the only major omission, but everybody misses out on somebody.