Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Pugilist_Spec, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    I've just stumbled upon a video of Foreman at some talk show, stating that Williams along with ****ey and Lyle was the hardest puncher he met. How good was this guy? He put up a decent performance against Liston and was a ranked contender for a while. Plus he was rather big for his time. Could he have competed in other eras?
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He is a bit of an enigma really.

    Contemporary fighters and trainers raved about him, but his record doesn't quite back up what they say.

    There are enough testimonials about his power, that I am sold on this aspect of his game.

    He is exactly the kind of fighter, who would have been assured of some success in any era, with the right management.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  3. uncletermite

    uncletermite Boxing Addict banned

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    Foreman never fought Williams.He was a level below Liston with good skills,he was never on Foremans level. He wouldn't be in a top 5 spot in other eras.He would be like a smaller Frank Bruno.
     
  4. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wasn,t he shot down before the Clay fight?
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes, he never really fully recovered.
     
  6. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thanks for the info! who knows how good he could have been without
    those setbacks
     
  7. AREA 53

    AREA 53 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    As i Recall Cleve was Shot at extreme close range in the Abdomen by a Cops Magnum Handgun, Doctors were amazed that he survived and it was because of the amazing strengh/condition of his abdominal muscles, it's little wonder he was never really the same again, I think for 2 and Half rounds he was very impressive against Liston before Ol Stoneface bought the roof down on him... This williams i feel would of had chances against some of the 70's upper echelon like Norton, Shavers, and Lyle, He probably would be a very Live underdog... for three of four rounds...

    I think it was in a 1962 Boxing illustrated Article that Cleve stated he wanted to meet the Loudmouth Clay, and his manager Hugh Benbow was also very Vocal , Particularly when the match was signed in 66.. Ali remembered these earlier "Verbals" and Benbow's deemed Lack of respect, Ali was stoked to push some barbs back down some throats... ( Terrell would get a slower Admin next time up !)
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Among the most overrated heavies ever I think. But he could definitely bang, he could chin-check for sure.
     
  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    They sparred.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I disagree he had fast hands ,a good jab and terrific power in both hands.Rated when he was were :
    Cooper
    Lavorante
    Folley
    Logan
    Erskine
    Jones
    London
    Rischer
    Cleroux
    Mildenberger

    I would confidently pick him to beat any of them, except possibly Jones, [he beat Rischer & lost to Cleroux, after he had been shot].
    That being the case I can't see how he is overated.Avoided yes.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He was pretty good.
    He did okay when he stepped up to fight Machen and Terrell, there's nothing to say he wasn't on that level, and he gave Liston some trouble in both the fights, did as well or better than Folley did against Liston and much better than Patterson did.
    Liston rated Williams as the best man he'd fought anyway.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    According to the Sports Illustrated piece on Ali-Williams, Hugh Benbow, Williams' manager, showed Ali's handlers a photo of a 155-pound Williams as he was in hospital before they agreed to fight him.
    Ali, for his part, would have fought him anyway at that stage, Ali didn't duck anyone in those years and was a champion at the peak of his game.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Ali knew Williams was significantly diminished, he said to someone," there isn't much left now".
     
  14. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali was, at that point, fighting at a pace unseen since Joe Louis amongst heavyweights (and probably never seen again). I feel it was to make as much as he could before the Vietnam issue forced his hand.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree.