This is a legitimate thread, let's leave the Mayweather fight out of this, not because I disregard it, but because I feel we can have a more objective thread without the more emotive responses from either side regarding this fight. Look at Pacquiao's career. What he's done and achieved, how and where will he be ranked amongst the greats. How actually great and impressive were his achievements compared to those who have gone before him? Is he rated as highly as he should be? Or is he rated too highly? How were his opponents, do you count them as credible wins? Or tainted? I want an actual objective, non emotive opinion on Pacquiao. Let's disregard the Mayweather fight and PED accusations. Let's just look at his career.
I think he was very great. He gets underrated nowadays, but I think that will change. His best wins often gets picked apart as is the custom with contemporary fighters, but perspective will probably set in at some point. No one has done to Barrera, Morales, DLH, Cotto etc what he did. Not even close to it. At some point people will stop and appreciate that he must be the only former flyweight champ to beat a future MW title holder, by absolute demolition no less.
He's a great fighter. A few years ago people were over-rating him, in a historical sense, calling him top 5 all-time or whatever. This year people are under-rating him. People are fickle. I always thought some of his wins in the higher divisions were being over-hyped, and his best work mainly was around featherweight. But wins over Hatton and Cotto were excellent no doubt. The performances were superb. JMM was his nemesis. But personally I don't judge a fighter too harshly for fighting his most awkward foe 4 times in total. Lots of great fighters avoided rematches with their toughest opponents.
Had some limitations and fundamental flaws that would have cost him against a lot of the more skilled historic greats of his weight classes (especially at welterweight), but a great fighter in the pound-for-pound sense. Very exciting fighter and fun to watch.
I think Pac is an ATG..did comparable things to Armstrong in the modern era. I think he is the top Asian fighter of all time (between Pac and Fighting Harada). Pacquiao had an unbelievable run...
I think Pac's run around 147 gets severly underrated today. He wasn't given much chance against DLH, and the ironic thing is that I think Pac would get much more credit for that win if it had at least been somewhat competitive. But since it was such a blowout, too much is made out of Oscar cutting probably unnecessary weight. And then also destroying Hatton like that. It was almost a Tyson-Spinks kind of demolition job, but with the bigger man getting smashed instead of the smaller. And then dominating and stopping Cotto. His finest win imo, considering Cotto's quality and the size difference. Three magnificent performances, followed up by punishing shut-outs over Mosley, Margarito (whom he ruined) and Clottey. Had he retired there, his case for a top 10 spot would be strong imo, but the losses to Marquez definitely hurts him, despite good wins over Rios, Algieri and especially Bradley. Don't think the loss to Floyd hurts him at all really, seeing how great Floyd is coupled with Pac's disadvantage in size. If the two stand out fighters of an era meet, you'd expect the bigger man to win. And most did.
I agree with a lot of this but I don't see how there was ever really a case for him as a top 10 welterweight. Even top 20 would have been a stretch, given all the old greats who've fought in the division and the skilled welterweights of the 1980s and 90s. I don't see how you rate the DLH win, as it was apparent before the opening bell that Oscar had made a grave mistake in trying to cut down to a weight class where he hadn't fought in 7 years. The fact that his body was unable to rehydrate (Pacquiao actually entered the ring as the bigger man) was alarming. Some of the other wins were definitely quality (despite the fact that several of them had already been stopped or badly beaten) but they don't seem like ATG welterweight stuff to me. And other than Margarito and Clottey, I'm not sure that any of them were prime natural welterweights. The problem with his performance against Mayweather isn't that he lost but that his complete ineffectiveness in the fight underscores his inability to deal with highly skilled boxers. Also worth noting that Mayweather has always been a small welterweight too.
I meant he had a strong case as nr 10 p4p if he had retired before Marquez III, not necessarily nr 10 at WW. Before the opening bell against DLH, Oscar was the huge favorite. That is the indisputable fact. I don't think Floyd was very effective himself. And small WW or no, he is bigger than Pac and an ATG. And who doesn't have problems with highly skilled boxers? But very few have destroyed two of the best boxers of his generation as Pac did Barrera and Morales. Both larger to boot. Not to mentioned his wins over even larger skilled boxers in Cotto and Bradley. That's not really Foreman like results against crafty boxers.
I'm curious, how do you think Floyd does vs Oscar of the Manny fight? Is it still pretty competitive or does Floyd pick him to pieces with ease? Manny was superb from 122 to 130 and thats what I remembr him for Got sucked into the Floyd vs Manny infighting on here and was more of a ***** than Pac**** and spent lots of posting trashing Manny Regardless of what you say about the condition of Cotto and Oscar what he did was incredible