Jack Dempsey and The Color Line...

Size is only used in here when it fits ones arguments,use it in REAL time with other eras its witch craft :hey.....and Louis I beleive won the title from Braddock?

 

Once again you're going on about who you think would win. That's irrelevant. You could just as easily ask if Dempsey went life and death with Brennan, who Greb handled easily four times, was thrashed by Tunney, who was beaten by Greb at least twice, or looked poor against Gibbons, who lost a one-sided decision to Greb the previous year, how could he hope to beat Greb?

But all that is beside the point. The issue is whether Greb was a legit challenger to Dempsey. He was, simple. If he was capable of beating men who were subsequently deemed fit to face Dempsey, some several times and in lopsided fashion, then he's fit to face Dempsey. If he wins a title eliminator against Gibbons, then he's fit to face Dempsey. If he can beat Brennan four times, then he's fit to face Dempsey.

Which of Dempsey's challengers do you think were superior to Greb?

 

The comparison was not with Carpentier so much as with 181lbsTunney who battered Greb in1925.Carpentier was used to show what happened when a light heavy stepped up to fight Dempsey.
Greb weighed under 168lbs in March 1925 when Tunney stomped him,by then Dempsey was up in the 190's, 2 years earlier he had weighed 192.5 lbs when he kod Firpo.

From 1914 to 1919 Carpentier was in the French Air force during WW1, that's 5 of those 7 years accounted for.
Prior to that he had beaten Gunboat Smith ,considered the "White heavyweight champion" at the time.
Your hate is so desperate it's as irrational as Mendoza's for Jack Johnson, and damages your credibility just as much as his obssessive venom does him.


Lets name all the decent heavyweights Greb had beaten recently:
. Two wins over Bill Brennan in1919
Brennan could never master Greb , but after losing to him for the last time in1919 he had 21 fights, losing just on a dec to Bob Roper,he then lost to Dempsey.

A 1920 win over a washed up GunBoat Smith,reports say Smith sustained a serious eye injury before being ko'd, no matter he was already done as far as top flight was concerned.

A win over`13 fight Bartley Madden in1920. Madden lost to Dempsey victims.
Levinsky
Brennan
Miske
Fulton
Gibbons

2 wins over 15 fight Jack Renault in1921.
Renault was a decent fighter but he also lost to Dempsey victims
Miske
Sharkey
Fulton

And had losses to 2 Dempsey sparring partners.Godfrey and Gains.

Another win over Madden in1921
.
A win over Charley Weinert in 1921 Weinert lost to Dempsey victims.
Miske
Levinsky
Fulton
Smith
Firpo

Those are his heavyweight credentials over "decent heavyweights," during Dempsey's reign.
Impressive, but hardly awe inspiring.

No doubt Klompton will charge in at some later point to add his"unbiased opinion".So be it.

 

Right you are. And Dempsey didn't take it easy on his sparring partners.

Greb's chances to embarrass Dempsey in defeat are better than meets the eye.

Greb was very fast and hard to hit. And he had a grade A chin.

Dempsey did not have good long term stamina. And he had some issues with faster fighters.

Don't tell me Greb could not pull a Meehan at times ( winning rounds ), then last the distance as Gibbons did.

Yeah Dempsey was bigger, but 187 vs 165 at the times were accepted fights.

I'd pick Dempsey, but do give Greb a small chance to win if it was 15 rounds, and Dempsey punched himself out early.

 

Who says Dempsey did not have good stamina?
Not Tommy Gibbons.

 

From1920 -1923 which heavyweights did Greb beat that should have earned him a title shot?

 

Lets take a look at these:
Gun Boat Smith was thoroughly washed up. He had won 3 of his last 7 fights ,would have 3 more, be ko'd in all of them then retire.

Darcy weighed 165lbs for the Greb fight!
Norfolk was a lightheavyweight in the Greb fights.
Gibbons weighed 171lbs
Tunney was a light heavy in all the fights he lost to Greb

Homer Smith lost to, well who didn't he lose to?
Dempsey in 1.16 seconds!
Fulton
Brennan
Miske
Roper
Levinsky
Rojas
Wiggins
Renault
Risko
Sharkey
Wills
Firpo
Madden
Uzcudun
Roberti
Oh and a 52 years old Jack Johnson!

Homer was a trial horse who never beat a good heavyweight.



Loughran had 3 fights with Greb,he weighed 163lbs 165lbs and 166lbs.

The Brennan fights were prior to your selected timescale, 1920-1923
This leaves you with only three credible candidates.

Bartley Madden10-2-1
Jack Renault
Charley Weinert 12-2-1


For my money his best heavyweight win during this period was over Jack Renault.
Renault was beaten by Billy Miske in1921 and 1922 ,once by ko ,being knocked clean out of the ring .

A few months before the first Renault fight , Miske was kod in 3 rds by Dempsey.


Greb's heavyweight resume doesn't look so special now does it?

Hate will only take you so far,and yours has just run out of petrol.

 

Mc. well done, BUT logic and history will not change the mind of haters of Jack Dempsey who seem to think in their infinite wisdom that THEY somehow
"know" more about the prowess of the prime Manassa Mauler than then
the thousands of boxers such as Sam Langford, Mickey Walker, Joe Benjamin, Jack Sharkey, Gene Tunney, Max Schmeling etc, and great trainers
along with hardened boxing writers who saw Dempsey tear through the
heavyweight division and raved about his swift power and toughness. To think that these "aficionados" of boxing who denounce and disregard the true
opinions of these men and somehow think 90 years later that THEY KNOW BETTER is the height of arrogance that knows no bounds. Cheers Mc...

 

It is to his detriment that he failed to fight Wills and Greb, but he did not sit on the title for three years.

He formally announced his retirement, so the powers that be could easily have matched two contenders for the vacant title.

 

Smith, by his own mouth was finished and his record confirms it!
Morris was washed up as much as Smith, he had won just one of his last 4 fights, beating the fearsome Fat LaRue 7-2-6
Morris had been ko'd in 1 minute by Dempsey 2 years earlier!
Smith said he took the Havana fight with Wills purely for the boat ride.
The Darcy who fought Greb was a middle weight that's the top and bottom of that.Therefore he is excluded ,whatever else he did is irrelevant!

Again, what Gibbons may have done later is irrelevant,he was a light heavyweight when he fought Greb so non applicable .
And don't forget that 2 months before losing to Greb , Gibbons beat him [1920.]
Giving him what was described as "the licking of his life"

Newspaper win for Gibbons according to the Pittsburgh Post. Greb "took the licking of his life." Gibbons won 7 rounds, Greb only two (narrowly), and the third round was even. "Gibbons astonished the fans with the speed and accuracy of his punches, and his ability to make Harry miss and look bad. Gibbons has made a believer of this writer (Florent Gibson), who did not believe him of the same caliber as Greb. Ringsiders declared..that Harry looked awfully bad and didn't fight his usual fight." Gibbons "seemed to solve Greb's attack with ease." He marked up Greb badly but didn't hurt him too much. "Gibbons was the aggressor at all stages. He had Harry backing away from the start..and this is unusual." Greb even had to hold in the last three rounds. Greb occasionally switched around and surprised Gibbons, but not much. Gibbons made Greb's right hand almost useless. Greb did win the 5th and 6th rounds but he definitely took a licking
.


Homer Smith was a ham and egger he was never a "good heavyweight". None of the rest of your comments have anything to do with your position that Greb beat lots of good heavyweights around that time .
You made a statement that Greb had beaten plenty of decent heavyweights recently
I proved its bullsh*t

HE HADN'T HE BEAT 3 DECENT HEAVYWEIGHTS IN THOSE 3 YEARS TWO WERE MARGINAL CONTENDERS THE OTHER WAS BEATEN BY TWO DEMPSEY VICTIMS AND ALSO BY TWO OF HIS SPARRING PARTNERS .

Keep that hate coming. It's made your posts on this thread among the worst you have ever typed.