I think I have an idea of how Greb operated based on his training film.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Oct 12, 2015.


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  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I watched Greb's training film again, which includes some sparring. While its just a training film, I do believe you can pick up some of Greb's styles and tendencies.

    Described as as fast, amateurish, and a little dirty with the stamina of two men in their prime, I think the video shows something else.

    DEFENSE. Greb was boxing with his left glove high in near his face. Sometimes he waives it around, other times he sticks his arm out to block or parry the blow. In way he's a bit like Jack Johnson with the glove blocking however Greb adds additional layers around this " glove like " defense that has become nearly extinct.

    1 ) He's very quick and balanced. Greb circles around the ring like a spinning top in control of its actions meaning he's on balance and hard to time or catch. He’s anything but flat footed and stationary. Slower footed fighters aren't going to catch him. Could he can spin and move then use the momentum and change it to a punch? I did not see that on this film, but believe its plausible due to his balance.

    2 ) He's quick to duck a blow, or bend at the waist to attack. This takes makes him tough to jab and hit for fighters who mostly target the head from mid to long range.

    3 ) He has fast hands, and once in range, likes the uppercut or the body as well as the head. In my opinion once he lands he then buries his man with a blizzard of punches, sometimes mixing in in elbows or fouls, other times spinning away. He wasn't called the human windmill for nothing.

    Upon a ref breaking the action, he's back to moving and circling with stamina as if he just started the fight. With a top level chin, this type of style is very hard to solve. You really have to press him and in-fight back all night. Some might view this style as it as fast & messy boxing that spoils the other fighter's more classical or orthodox mode of preference but for Greb it worked in the spades. Very few since had the right attributes to replicate it.

    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNE6V_RyBwg[/url]
     
    Mendoza, Oct 12, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 12, 2015
    #1
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The general impression I get is great speed, coupled with great balance, he is like a rubber ball,extremely fluid and agile.
     
    mcvey, Oct 12, 2015
    mcvey, Oct 12, 2015
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  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I get more of an impression from watching Calzaghe fight.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 12, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 12, 2015
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Clazaghe was active and tough to catch but didn't like the rough stuff or the in-fighting at all.

    Similar but very different in terms of where they liked to be in the ring.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 12, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 12, 2015
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  5. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I was gonna say something similar
     
    N_ N___, Oct 12, 2015
    N_ N___, Oct 12, 2015
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  6. emallini

    emallini Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    He would be absolutely hopeless in the modern era.
     
    emallini, Oct 12, 2015
    emallini, Oct 12, 2015
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  7. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

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    If we saw grainy black and white films of Mayorga, Margarito, Maidana and Froch from the 20's we would probably say the same thing. Gibbons, Tunney and Walker look pretty good to me from that era. He would have to adapt somewhat to the evolutionary advances of boxing, but speed + stamina + will + chin can take you far even when you are technically inferior.
     
    Hannibal Barca, Oct 12, 2015
    Hannibal Barca, Oct 12, 2015
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  8. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We have to remember that this training film tells us very little of
    the frenetic style of Harry Greb. After all he was sparring with a 55 year old ex fighter Phil. Jack O'Brien for his bout with Mickey Walker in 1925. Greb a faded fighter by then with about 295 bouts under his belt, would be dead in one year. How would a vicious offensive fighter truly look holding back from hurting
    the elderly trainer Jack O'Brien ? Out of his element I would think. But I have a copy of the original film found in a College archive, and what struck me was when Greb was playing
    handball with Phil Jack O'Brien, while he waits for the handball
    to get to him, Harry Greb's feet is bouncing non-stop like a
    whirling dervish, bouncing to and froe as if he was a rubber ball.
    And then I understood what Gene tunney said of Harry Greb.
    "He was impossible to time and was never in the same spot for more than a second ". Just watching Greb bounce around
    waiting for the handball to reach him makes me understand
    what Gene Tunney described of Harry Greb's style...On top of this tireless bouncing ball his swarming tornado of punches
    described by an opponent after fighting Greb as " I felt the ceiling opened up and a carload of boxing gloves came crashing down on my head"...This unique style of speed, roughness, unlimited stamina etc, can not be seen in a clip sparring with a 55 year old gym owner and trainer Phil. Jack O'Brien...
    Incidentally, this training session was taken on the roof of the gym Phil. Jack O.Brien owned on B'way in NYC.
    One day Jack Johnson who was retired sparred with Harry Greb and said " Greb was the fastest man he ever saw".
    I would have liked to have asked Phil.Jack O'Brien who twice was
    flattened by Stanley Ketchel [once by ko and once saved by the final bell ], "who would have won in a brawl between The Michigan Assassin and The Pittsburgh windmill ?. His answer
    would have been interesting to say the least...
     
    burt bienstock, Oct 12, 2015
    burt bienstock, Oct 12, 2015
    #8
  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    From this description it seems to me that he was constantly turning his opponent and presenting angles so that they could not land power shots. But then I imagine that he couldn't have generated much power either. What's his KO ratio like?
     
    BCS8, Oct 13, 2015
    BCS8, Oct 13, 2015
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  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Greb had 48 KO's in 119 fights. This is a 40% KO ratio. This is a bit low when you consider the number of blows he landed. On the other hand, you have to consider the competition he faced, which was excellent. It's much harder to stop the best. How good was his competition?

    Greb faced 16 Hall of Famers a combined total of 48 times during his career, going 33-9-6 against men who would later be defined as all-time greats. Simply amazing.

    I disagree with the Calzaghe comparison. Yes--they were both quick and hard to catch and time. Greb blocked with his gloves and fought up close. Calzaghe liked to operate at a distance and hardly used his gloves or arms to block.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 13, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 13, 2015
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  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Training film?
    What about the Allentown Joe Gans fight ??
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
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  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Oh they don't want to release that to the public.:yep
     
    mcvey, Oct 13, 2015
    mcvey, Oct 13, 2015
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  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah .. but ... I thought Mendoza was in the inner circle (ie. one of those who had seen it..) ... no ?
    Who knows?
    I can't keep track of the latest Greb films. Too many coming out too quick. :lol:
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
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  14. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Please guys, let's not start that Greb film story again. This thread could be really interesting :nonono
     
    BCS8, Oct 13, 2015
    BCS8, Oct 13, 2015
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  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Well, I was only wondering .... :D

    I'm not sure how much we can communicate among ourselves about Greb's style of operating, by taking an informed "guess at it".
    The best we can ever come up with is a description in words (of something we haven't actually seen), which is exactly what the sportswriters did anyway, as their profession, and they had of course actually seen him.
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
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