Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Hookie, Oct 13, 2015.


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  1. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    I thought we settled this?

    Bowe beat a prime undefeated Hide who ran for his life around the ring. He was like Usain Bolt in there and Bowe still dropped him over 10 times.
    Thats an endorsement of Bowe's boxing ability , to floor a guy that many times while he's running away.

    Vitali got out boxed by Hide years later before Hide suddenly decided to quit when he knocked himself out on an punch that didn't even connect:rofl
     
    dinovelvet, Oct 16, 2015
    dinovelvet, Oct 16, 2015
    #106
  2. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Vitali flattened Hide. Herbie was game but couldn't take the power.
     
    BCS8, Oct 16, 2015
    BCS8, Oct 16, 2015
    #107
  3. latineg

    latineg user of dude wipes Full Member

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    yeah that was quite a knock out, poor Herbie's legs and arms were twitching like he was hooked up to a taser,

    glad he got back up as he did even though it was called,,,,

    Herbie had some super fast hands, but Vit's timing and judgement of distance was great against Hide, Vits was too big and too strong.
     
    latineg, Oct 16, 2015
    latineg, Oct 16, 2015
    #108
  4. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Where did this guy come from then?

    1998-03-07 240¼ Louis Monaco 224½ 7 11 2

    More than a year after Vits debut .
     
    Foxy 01, Oct 17, 2015
    Foxy 01, Oct 17, 2015
    #109
  5. latineg

    latineg user of dude wipes Full Member

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    you went to boxrec, examined Vits record and came up with this to dispute Mendoza.

    It was 3 guys with a loosing record not 2.

    good job Foxy, I bet you got excited when you came across it :good
     
    latineg, Oct 17, 2015
    latineg, Oct 17, 2015
    #110
  6. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    dumb on 2 levels, since

    1 he lost to ali, who anyone would lose to. but if that's not bad enough
    2. he was already undisputed by beating the world number 1 undisputed, and with style, twice.
     
    HerolGee, Oct 17, 2015
    HerolGee, Oct 17, 2015
    #111
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    As to whether or not he would be undipsuted now, who gives a ****? Why argue about what a corrupt, drunken, bizarre, oafish, 3-heavyweight champion having WBA do? Why is that, in any way, a mark of quality of any kind?

    Undisputed is a joke. It's about and only about politics. If your manager or promoter doesn't have a relationship with the WBA you won't be WBA champ. End of. Why on earth should the cultivation of contacts by associates have ANY baring upon fistic excellence?

    It's a preposterous thing to argue about.
     
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    #112
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Whilst I do agree, there is huge met in unifying all the championship claims as there always has been imo.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 17, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 17, 2015
    #113
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There is, I agree, but i think people - well people on here - should know better.

    What's big about having "all five belts" (and there are more) is that you've probably (but not necessarily) taken out a lot of god contenders to get there. So from that perspective, yeah, it's impressive.

    But you've also - fact - paid a lot of money. Pressed a lot of flesh. Done a lot of favours, perhaps. Not directly, but indirectly.

    From that perspective it's ridiculous. Wlad is a belt down and it makes literally no difference to me. None. It doesn't "affect his legacy" even 1%.
     
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    #114
  10. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    it would be preposterous to ask to unify 4 or 5 belts.

    but it would not be too much to ask to unify 2 or 3 major ones so as to be generally undisputed.

    I should really add that wlad has pretty much unified and is pretty much undisputed now. Hes achieved the same as liston and ali each did in 1 fight each, albeit by a scenic route. I have no problem wth recognising wladdie as undisputed today, I made a mistake in not calling him undisputed earlier.
     
    HerolGee, Oct 17, 2015
    HerolGee, Oct 17, 2015
    #115
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm not feeling this at all. "Generally undisputed", "prety much undisputed", all that means pretty much nothing to me. I'll never, ever describe a fighter is such. You either are or you aren't.
     
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    #116
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    But if he was to defeat Wilder would that improve his legacy? Purely from a full unification pov?
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 17, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 17, 2015
    #117
  13. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A guy that loses to Marty Marshall & Leotis Martin should not be compared to VK.

    Vitali smushes these guys.

    We officially have 20 stupid ppl on this forum.
     
    brb, Oct 17, 2015
    brb, Oct 17, 2015
    #118
    ascended likes this.
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Not to me; it would be a good win over a ranking heavy. Another way to think of it - if the abc infusing Wilder stripped him for defending against Wlad before their fight would it make the fight mean less? Probably to some people but that's the problem.

    If you imagine a situation where there was only one title and Wlad owned it and he defended against Wilder based only upon what Wilder had done what would it mean? Because that's what it really means. Wilder is "a champion" because Vitali retired, and a self-serving boxing organisation matched Chris Tits with Bermane Stiverne, an unranked fighter versus the #5. Then Wilder beat that #5.

    That's nonsense. The idea that defeating Wilder is imbued with some sort of mystical legacy enhancing juice because he beat a guy who beat an unranked guy for a paper title is just bizarre.

    But I do understand it is a part of boxing thinking and that i'm probably, unfortunately, in minority.
     
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 17, 2015
    #119
  15. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Well, let's see ---- one loss at the beginning of his career avenged twice, another loss at the end of his career when he was ancient and washed-up. You sure are making great points.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 17, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 17, 2015
    #120
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