If Trinidad ruined Vargas how do you explain the DLH fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rafaman, Oct 24, 2015.


  1. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    439
    Jun 26, 2015
    Vargas post Tito Trinidad fought:

    1) Wilfredo Rivera. His best days were at 147 but he was a very tough and seasoned pro fighter. Rivera was 32-4 and had only been stopped by ODLH, Shane Mosely and gave Sweet Pea Pernell Whitaker 2 very tough fights. Yes, Vargas was knocked down in the 2nd round but why can't we give credit to Rivera for being well prepared for this fight. In the telecast Emmanuel Stewart said that Rivera felt he had never been more ready, he actually had a full 6 week training camp. Rivera said most of his career were short notice fights and this was his last chance to make money. Vargas also took this fight only 5 months removed from the very tough Tito fight. Vargas did look sloppy early in the first 2 rounds but then stopped and pressured Rivera.

    2) Shibata Flores. Not a elite champ by any means but a more than competent pro. He was 42-8. More importantly was that Flores was very close friends and a long time sparring partner to Vargas. Vargas said he had trouble early on because Flores knew all his tricks. Rewatching the fight, Flores let his hands go hard early on, he really tried to hurt Vargas. Vargas won by body punching and pressuring. Vargas even was slugging away in the last few rounds, not gun shy at all.

    3) ODLH. Brutal fight. Vargas took so many blows and was pressuring throughout. He even mounted a late rally in the 9th banging DLH's body and threw 525 punches. We do have to note that Vargas tested positive for steroids but outside that Vargas certainly didn't look shot, ruined or a broke down fighter like many on these forums have suggested. Most cards had the fight very close until the stoppage. I had DLH up by 2 points. All credit to DLH, this fight showed great skill and toughness by both men. DLH was 34-2 at the time and would not retire for another 6 years.

    All of Vargas's post Trinidad fights (2 yrs on) showed a different fighter. Vargas was slower, more flat footed, his upper body movement was decreased BUT saying he was "ruined" is a gross exaggeration. Gone was the dynamo who could out hustle Quartey, the steady ring IQ from the Campas fights and the fighter who tried very hard to not allow fighters to land clean punches like the Marquez fight. But he was still a very tough out.
     
  2. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,204
    93
    Oct 1, 2014
    He wasn't ruined. He was very good for that fight. It was his best performance since Tito. His back problems are what ruined him.
     
  3. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

    1,006
    1,292
    Oct 20, 2015
    Ruined may be a strong word; diminished might be more appropriate. He took a helluva beating by Tito, and a beating like that can make you gunshy, stomp your confidence, and physiologically reduce your ability to take shots.

    I think Vargas was wise to use steroids for DLH, because I'm sure he would have looked much worse for the wear without it. Steroids replaced what he lost in that fight.

    Those fights between Tito and DLH were against very safe opponents who wouldn't be stepping on those fresh vulnerabilities.
     
  4. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,470
    58
    Feb 23, 2008
    While I agree with this I also think the Trinidad fight took some of the wind out of his sails. Losses like that are hard to completely recover from psychologically. He was still a good fighter but a piece of him was missing after Tito. Maybe he would have regained his pre Trinidad form and confidence, but as you stated his back problems were the biggest reason he was never the same.
     
  5. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,647
    9,463
    Jan 10, 2007
    I'd say he was ruined AFTER DLH fight.

    Trinidad fight in fact diminished him a bit, but DLH loss and steroid scandal hit his ego pretty hard. He has never recovered mentally after that.
     
  6. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    24,329
    9,936
    Jun 23, 2008
    The Trinidad fight ended his prime. He was never the same after. The Vargas that fought DLH was not the same Vargas as pre-Trinidad.
     
  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    10,974
    5,432
    Feb 10, 2013
    Vargas wasnt the same after Trinidad. No doubt about that and the proof is in his fights. I watched his entire career and there was a noticeable slide after Trinidad. Thats the only reason DLH chose to fight him. He cherry picked him. He avoided Vargas like the plague until Vargas started looking vulnerable.
     
  8. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

    5,495
    7,013
    Aug 17, 2011
    It isn't like Vargas looked good against DLH.
     
  9. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    439
    Jun 26, 2015
    Vargas was up by 3 points on one of the judges scorecard. The fight was very competitive. Vargas looked good but not elite.

    The biggest decline I saw in Vargas was his defense. No more parrying or slipping he literally ate everything DLH threw. Against Winky and Quartey you saw Vargas roll after throwing his combos and made guys work to hit him.
     
  10. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    439
    Jun 26, 2015
    I agree but we know all this looking back. DLH was only a -240 favourite on that night.

    I will never understand why Vargas fought like some bodybuilding hulk vs DLH. We had never really seen that style from him before. Sure he brawled before but it was in spurts, mixed in with periods of outside boxing looking for openings.
     
  11. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    439
    Jun 26, 2015
    Vargas tested positive for Stanozol which is commonly used by bodybuilders to "cut" fat and still lean muscle. It also a bridging drug that can be used to stack other drugs onto it.

    Vs Rivera, Vargas looked pudgy and very soft, no abs at all.

    Here is an interview from around May 2002, when the fight was cancelled for a 2nd time due to DLH's injuring his hand (1 month out). Vargas was totally shredded even then. Safe to say he was juicing throughout that whole year. The fight then set for September.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FnwOrMnnek
     
  12. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,204
    93
    Oct 1, 2014

    I think his back might've been going and limiting his lateral movement. With that said, there was some machismo bullshi t mixed in and DLH was in a "slick" phase which just egged Vargas on.
     
  13. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    439
    Jun 26, 2015
    I think that his bad back played a huge factor, way more than the Trinidad fight.

    Credit to Vargas he never once used his back as an excuse.
     
  14. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    439
    Jun 26, 2015
    Yep. He fought from the perspective that he was SO much bigger and stronger than DLH. Not sure where he got that from. Vargas outhustled guys he never out muscled them. Vargas went toe to toe with Tito in the 8th-9th rounds but it was a technical attack.

    TBH we all talk about Vargas as having a great ring IQ and being very intelligent as a fighter. But that's only one part of the story. Vargas was prone to periods of being outjabbed in his career and got hit a lot. Tito had good success with the jab vs Vargas.

    Vargas was totally outspeeded by DLH, the difference in their handspeed was very telling right from round one. Vargas jab was non existent at times during that fight. Perhaps he had no choice but to crowd him and chase down the quicker fighter. Vargas often closed the distance with a straight right and then went inside to muscle DLH.
     
  15. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    439
    Jun 26, 2015
    The crazy thing about Vargas is his power hand was his left hook. And when in trouble and being overly aggressive he always went back to it. Vargas tried to back up both Trinidad and DLH with it BUT they both had even better left hands, so it was a dangerous game to play. As the old timers say "you don't hook with a hooker".