Why is Wlad Klitschko Considered an ATG

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Mr.DagoWop, Oct 23, 2015.


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  1. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Less? I disagree.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    #61
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    John L Sullivan, the first great fighter in history was never able to fight a great fighter because the only great fighter was him.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 24, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 24, 2015
    #62
  3. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    LOL, Wlad-haters, let the Hate flow through youuuu
     
    BCS8, Oct 24, 2015
    BCS8, Oct 24, 2015
    #63
  4. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Wlad's been so dominant nobody else has had a chance to be "great".
     
    BCS8, Oct 24, 2015
    BCS8, Oct 24, 2015
    #64
  5. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I agree that Wlad is the best of this era no doubt about it. I'm just debating on how he sizes up with other heavyweight champions. That's what an ATG means.
     
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    #65
  6. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    His best wins are against lighter guys who didn't have the bodies for HW.

    He had a massive size advantage over the worst selection of HWs in history.

    Never won a fight he was expected to lose. Was a huge favourite to winn all his matches and still lost 3/4 times.

    He went life and death with sam peter. These guys beat Peter easier and more convincingly

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    http://www.nowboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/James-Toney-UFC.jpg
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    http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/photos/images/pose/chambers_eddie_0001.jpg

    Than this guy

    http://www.tvmovie.de/sites/www.tvm...o-im-bodycheck-4122094-wladimirklitschko8.jpg
     
    dinovelvet, Oct 24, 2015
    dinovelvet, Oct 24, 2015
    #66
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    6-2, 230 Povetkin
    6- 4 1/2, 240 Pulev
    6-5, 240 Tony Thompson
    6-3, 210 David Haye
    5-11, 225 Chagaev
    6-2, 230 Brewster

    How are these guys not heavyweights? Which champion fought significantly bigger guys on a consistent basis?

    Try again.
     
    Seamus, Oct 24, 2015
    Seamus, Oct 24, 2015
    #67
  8. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Jack Dempsey comes to mind.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    #68
  9. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    He fought Gene Tunney
     
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    #69
  10. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    If we're relegated to using losses to a natural light-heavyweight then I wouldn't say Dempsey is in a better position than Wlad here.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    #70
  11. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You obviously don't know why Jack Dempsey is regarded as an ATG.

    He revolutionized boxing technique into what it is now.
     
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    #71
  12. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Which shows that you don't have to beat great fighters to be an ATG. You can become one for several reasons.

    Wladimir is an ATG because he has stood at the top of the division for nearly a decade taking up and beating all comers, being a great athlete, and being one of the pioneers of Eastern Europeans in pro boxing, as well as the most successful one among them. His greatness is not debatable.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    #72
  13. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    An ATG is considered for how they would fair against other champions of their weight class in the history of the sport. Wlad wouldn't do so well. I have yet to hear any valid reasons for him being an ATG other than his longevity.

    He has not beaten all comers, he only beat Povetkin by clinching. Being a great athlete doesn't make you an ATG boxer.
     
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    Mr.DagoWop, Oct 24, 2015
    #73
  14. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Then we simply disagree. I think he could beat anyone prior to Liston with certainity, and from that point on it's a wash between other champs with him winning some and losing some.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 24, 2015
    #74
  15. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    Show me 10 fighters that make it through his resume, start to finish, at 64-3 or better.

    Heck, show me 5.

    I'm not talking about taking a heavyweight at their best matched up against each of those 67 fighters in a vacuum; I'm referring to the context of an entire career fighting world class opponents encompassing a wide range of styles over the course of 16 years.

    Good luck finding more than a handful who'd have a realistic argument for matching it, let alone surpassing it.
     
    Rock0052, Oct 24, 2015
    Rock0052, Oct 24, 2015
    #75
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