Is Ward going to LHW because of Degale?

bailey · Oct 26, 2015

Serge said: ↑

Loudon, Dawson was not more proven than Bute at the weight Ward fought him at. Why do you think Ward pounced on fighting him at 168 and refused to budge a single inch when Dawson later approached him about doing it at a catchweight? Dawson only asked for a mere 2lb concession from him and they wouldn't even agree to that. What Dawson actually said in the post-fight interview when he called Ward out was that they could do it at that 168, 175 or a catchweight and Ward is the one who immediately jumped on them doing it at 168 and clung onto it like a limpet. He knew Dawson was obviously having problems getting back down to a weight he hadn't fought at in six and a half years but he still refused to budge an inch when Dawson requested a catchweight.

And during the post-fight press conference shortly after that interview Dawson said that he was ''not saying that he would prefer to come out of his comfort zone of 175 for the fight''

Ward knew full well in advance that he was going to be accused of draining Dawson if they fought at 168, but Mr. I don't do concessions and always WANT and GET everything my own way all the time once again refused to make a single concession to ensure, as per usual, the deck was stacked heavily in his favour yet again.

Dawson had already agreed to go to his hometown Jokeland for goodness sake, a place where Ward is allowed to fight to a set of rules he penned with his own hand. That alone already put Dawson at a massive disadvantage, but even that wasn't enough for Ward who always wants every single advantage stacked in his favour and then he gets all surly and throws his toys out of the pram whenever anyone dares to pull him up about it.

Ward and Virgil Hunter said they've already beaten two LHWs in Dawson and Edwin Rodriguez. Dawson weighed 186 when he fought him and Rodriguez was at least that by the time he climbed into the ring. Ward already knew weeks in advance (thanks to Ward's spies he has in his opponent's camps) that Rodriguez was having serious problems trying to get back down to the SMW limit. Rodriguez still looked like a skeleton on the scales during the secondary weigh-in on the morning of the fight and he weighed 179.8 then.

BTW, Rodriguez's trainer Ronnie Shields said that ''devout Christian'' Ward's notorious gangster manager James Prince was seen trying to break the scales that morning so that the weigh in would be delayed until even later and Rodriguez would have even less time to rehydrate on the day of the fight. atsch

So if Ward has already beaten two LHWs, one of them being the premier one in the world at the time, why in the hell does he now need 3 tune up fights to ''acclimatize to the weight'' before facing Kovalev if he didn't believe they were drained? Kovalev weighed 3lbs more in his last fight than Ward did in his and 3lbs less than Dawson did when Ward beat him too. And Rodriguez was probably closer to 190 come fight time when he fought Ward. Don't forget that Ward publicly stated at the time that he wants the credit for beating a full strength Dawson as well. He can't have it both ways, mate.

And why is he now trying to fight 2 SMWs, one of whom is a nobody and the other is European level at best, in back-to-back fights for ''settling into the weight'' fights? He already beat the best LHW in the world with ease. In fact, he stopped him for the first time in his career. But now he's too scared to face an actual LHW in his second fight at the weight opting instead to face a pair of very lowly SMWs who literally pose him zero threat.

And it's not an accident that Ward is refusing to face an actual LHW yet again for his second settling into the weight fight either. All three of the opponents I've heard he was trying to line up for this date are all career SMWs: Zac Dunn, Rohan Murdock, and Alexander Brand. :rofl

But you don't think he was banking on Dawson being drained when he fought him? You have no idea just how calculating and scheming Ward and his trainer are if not.

Regarding Bute. He would've been facing a healthy Bute at 168 not a drained to death cadaver. Revisionism aside, Bute was also a legitimate KO puncher who had scored spectacular one punch finishes over some of the toughest and most durable fighters in or around the SMW division. I'm talking like the freakishly tough Librado Andrade, Fernando Zuninga (it was a one punch finish if you check the clock. Zuniga was writhing on the canvas in utter agony for a good 14 or 15 seconds at least IIRC), and Edison Miranda, the same Miranda who a couple of years later a shot to smithereens version of knocked Dawson senseless in sparring a few weeks before Dawson fought Ward. No one has ever got rid of Miranda like Bute did, still to this day. Same goes for Andrade and Zuniga and it's not like they haven't fought plenty of quality opponents and big punchers or don't get hit a lot.

And Bute's uppercut was considered one of the most destructive weapons in the sport at the time too, a punch that Ward isn't just susceptible to but has actually already been hurt badly with twice now, one of which resulted in him getting dropped heavily and badly hurt to the point where he claims not to remember anything for the final 2 rounds of the fight and the other of which (delivered by the hand of a nobody) had him staggering backwards in dire straights a clean punch or two away from Bolivian.

In 2012 Ward said he was ''willing to fight anyone at '68 or '75." and that he was also ''ready to fight the best 168- and 175-pounders that are out there.'' He didn't need loads of tune ups to ''acclimatize to the weight'', he said he was ready for anyone. But when it came time for him to do that he slipped right back into rigging the deck heavily in his favour mode once again and insisted on dragging Dawson down to a weight he hadn't fought at in six and a half years even though he knew A. he would be accused of draining Dawson and B. that Dawson was having real difficulty trying to get down to the weight.

Like I said, and this is important to remember, we're talking about someone who always wants and gets everything his own way and refuses to make concessions in order to stack the deck as heavily as he can in his favour all the time. Dawson had already agreed to go to his hometown so why the hell couldn't he concede to a catchweight of a mere 2lbs given that and how he's also keenly aware of the fact that many have criticized him for always having everything his way and refusing to make concessions?

Once again, Kovalev weighed less in his last fight than both Dawson and Rodriguez did when they fought Ward
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I think Loudon likes to accuse others of black and white stats when he doesnt agree, but uses them himself and feels thats different. Maybe he just likes to argue for the sake of it?

Serge · Oct 26, 2015

Old post

What Dawson actually said during his post-fight interview when he called Ward out was that they could fight at 168, 175 or at a catch-weight and Ward pounced on the 168 even though he knew he would be accused of draining Dawson. Dawson said he could make the weight no problem but during the post-fight presser he wasn't saying he would prefer to come out of his comfort zone at 175, hence why he would later actually approach team Ward about doing it at a catch-weight of 170, 2 lbs above the SMW limit. But Team Ward refused to budge saying that the fight could only take place at 168 or not at all.

Gary Shaw mentioning it here.

4:45

[YT]uQwNn-jrV98[/YT]

At which point Virgil Hunter interjects with this classy attack on Dawson

''Speak for yourself Chad, this goes deeper then that, deeper then that'

''You ain't no Mandingo Slave Chad, You ain't no Mandingo Slave Chad''

''You ain't on no plantation no more Chad, quit letting that man speak for you, speak for yourself''

Had Ward accepted this small concession not only would he have picked up Dawson's lineal WBC strap (a belt that Ward had previously gone on record saying was the one he holds in the highest regard out of all the four major ones), but he would've also received a ton more credit for beating Dawson at full strength instead of the walking corpse that showed up on fight night. Naturally being the entitled diva he is Ward still wanted the credit for beating a full strength Dawson. Those couple of pounds obviously meant a great deal to him.

2:17 mark

[YT]Zoz4jpj66Vw[/YT]

This is what Ward said about Canelo's difficulties making weight for the Mayweather fight.

''Problem is Floyd doesn't get tired and we've seen Canelo fade in fights before.. Having to take off that extra two pounds is.. people think it's just two pounds but when you already struggling to make 154 that extra two pounds is a lot. He [Canelo] is going to put on a lot of weight but he's not going to be able to put on the right kind of weight in just 24 hours. So he's gonna feel the fact that he's, you know, stripped his body, cutting his muscles to get to 152.''

---Andre Ward

Well Dawson weighed 191 for the Glen Johnson rematch, a still very lean 191. That's 23 lbs above the SMW limit, a weight Dawson hadn't made in six and a half years and 14 fights, IIRC.

And Ward would later go onto to put his foot in his mouth by trying to discredit Manny Pacquiao's victories over De La Hoya and Cotto for bringing them down in weight.

''I think Manny has a great legacy, but we got to be honest about some of his fights though. The De La Hoya fight, thats a fight I dont know how it would of played out if De La Hoya had been able to come in full strength, but its no secret that De La Hoya really had to suck himself down. Cotto had to lose weight. Im not taking nothing from Pacquiao but with all due respect to Manny you gotta to look at Floyds resume, and people love to hate Floyd but people have to understand what he has been doing since the 90's, people just totally wiped out the 90's and forgot about it when it comes to Floyd Mayweather.''

Well it's no secret that Dawson had an absolutely torturous time dragging his 6'3'' frame down to a weight he hadn't fought at for six and a half years for Ward. So much so that he was getting beaten up all throughout camp by a 12-1 novice Lionell Thompson and he was so weakened by the end of it he he ended up getting dropped heavily and badly hurt in sparring by a shot Edison Miranda.

'The rumors have been circulating for weeks. Did Edison Miranda drop Chad Dawson during a sparring session? According to Miranda's trainer, Miguel Diaz, the incident happened.

For a few weeks in Las Vegas, the two fighters were training together for their respective fights on September 8th.

Dawson was getting prepared for a fight with WBA/WBC super middleweight champion Andre Ward at the Oracle Arena in Oakland, and Miranda was scheduled to head over to London to face British light heavyweight Tony Bellew. Both Dawson and Miranda suffered TKO defeats.

During one of their final sparring sessions, Miranda caught Dawson with a hard three punch combination. Dawson went down hard, says Diaz, but eventually got to his feet. They sparred for ten rounds a day or two later, without incident.

"It's very simple. That day we were prepared for a ten round workout. In the ninth round, Miranda executed something that I've been telling him to do the whole workout - left [hand], right hand, left hook - and he knocked him down. It was devastating for me, because I don't want to see something like that, but it happened. He was hurt. He tried to get up, he went down again, and got up. In fact, I screamed to Rafael Garcia 'come and help him,'

This is what Lionell Thompson's trainer Ross Thompson said on the eve of Ward-Dawson about the difficulties Dawson had making weight for that fight. He was there all throughout that camp with his fighter monitoring their sparring sessions. He actually predicted that Ward was going to ''destroy'' Dawson beforehand. No one outside of that camp was predicting that. The overwhelming consensus beforehand is that a Ward win was going to come by way of decision like every single other one of his wins against world class competition.

Ross Thompson

''I got Andre ward destroying chad Dawson 2nite Dawson had a bad camp after getting outboxed every day by my fighter lionell Thompson he finished his camp by getting stretched by his other spar partner Edison Miranda then he wants to get mad at lionell and not pay him for the work he owes lionell 8000 dollars but we will whup his ass in a real fight after ward tax that ass.''

''chad been getting beat up in camp every day and he running around here mad that he cant eat so he will be very weak also from killing himself to make the weight spent most of his camp in the sauna room instead of training but he was so mad that he was gettin outboxed by a unknown fighter that he decided to not pay lionell sayin he never agreed to pay him its ok god dont like ugly he will get his 2nite and then if he accepts the challenge lionell beat the **** out of that statue''

''yep he was real moody in camp cuz he could not eat nobody told his dumb ass to try and get down to 168 sumthin he did not have to do but he put his foot in his mouth but for him to be so mad that he did not pay his spar partners he is a ****ed up person and he will pay 2nite''

Confirmed by Steve Kim on Twitter.

''I'm told by more than one person in the know that Lionell Thompson had his way with Chad Dawson in sparring leading up to September the 8th''

And Tony Bellew posted on the Brit forum at the time that he'd seen the video of the Dawson-Miranda sparring session and that Dawson had been badly hurt.

Andre Ward 2012

"I am ready to fight the best 168- and 175-pounders that are out there," Ward told ESPN.com in a recent interview. "At this point, a big fight at 175 is interesting to me. I don't want to go up just to go up. But for the right fight, for a big fight, I would go up. I'm willing to fight anyone at '68 or '75."

And again

People ask me on the street or on Twitter when I'm coming back, said Ward, who is expecting his fourth child with wife Tiffiney in mid-June. Well, I'm coming. I want Bute but I'm ready for any big fight at 168 or 175 pounds.

Andre Ward, 2011

"After the tournament, I want to face Lucian Bute. Nobody else comes to mind. However, I do not intend to underestimate any opponent, and first I need to focus on winning the tournament. If I win the tournament and beat Bute, it would be everything that I could achieve [at this weight]. Therefore, in the future I do intend to move up. I want to win titles and face the best. The tournament, organized by Showtime, gave me the opportunity to fight the best fighters in my category, and after its completion there won't be anything for me at this weight''

And again.

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Hmm.. so he was ready for anyone at 168 and 175 back in 2011-2012, and any big fight at 175, but they wouldn't agree to face Dawson at a catch-weight of just 2 lbs above the SMW limit even though he would've nabbed Dawson's prestigious 175 WBC strap and lineal title and received a hell of a lot more credit for beating a full strength version of him instead of the drained shell of him?

Ward already had home advantage and two Californian judges in tow for Dawson so why couldn't he agree to a simple concession of 2 lbs given that and what he had to gain from beating Dawson at a catch-weight? He didn't even have to agree to fight Dawson at 175 to get his hands on his WBC belt and lineal title, a mere concession of 2 measly pounds on his part would've got him it. Like I said, those 2lbs obviously meant a lot to him.
Click to expand...

bailey · Oct 26, 2015

Serge said: ↑

Old post
Click to expand...

Im sure it was Ward I recall mentioning about when Pac faced Cotto, saying something along the lines of when Cotto was dropping a bit of weight for a catchweight, that it was those extra couple of pounds that make a difference. Seem to think I read it in Boxing News. Could of course be wrong. I wont have the magazine anymore to check

Serge · Oct 26, 2015

bailey said: ↑

I think Loudon likes to accuse others of black and white stats when he doesnt agree, but uses them himself and feels thats different. Maybe he just likes to argue for the sake of it?
Click to expand...

Loudon is like yourself a scholar and a gent. However, I strongly believe he likes to bat for both teams (if you catch my drift) and he has a massive man-crush on Ward. He pretty much admitted to me once that he got extremely aroused by those nudie selfie pics of Roy Jones grabbing his wang, to the point that he couldn't stop thinking about them when he was making love to his women. Mind Reader also once revealed to me in confidence (sorry Mind Reader) that Loudon once emailed him some nudie selfie pictures he'd taken of himself mimicking the Roy ones too. Mind Reader did add that Loudon's weapon was considerably larger than Roy's though. :yep

Serge · Oct 26, 2015

bailey said: ↑

Im sure it was Ward I recall mentioning about when Pac faced Cotto, saying something along the lines of when Cotto was dropping a bit of weight for a catchweight, that it was those extra couple of pounds that make a difference. Seem to think I read it in Boxing News
Click to expand...

Interesting.

bailey · Oct 26, 2015

For some reason I cant view any posts or see anything past post number 182 or scroll any further??

Mind Reader · Oct 26, 2015

Serge said: ↑

Loudon is like yourself a scholar and a gent. However, I strongly believe he likes to bat for both teams (if you catch my drift) and he has a massive man-crush on Ward. He pretty much admitted to me once that he got extremely aroused by those nudie selfie pics of Roy Jones grabbing his wang, to the point that he couldn't stop thinking about them when he was making love to his women. Mind Reader also once revealed to me in confidence (sorry Mind Reader) that Loudon once emailed him some nudie selfie pictures he'd taken of himself mimicking the Roy ones too. Mind Reader did add that Loudon's weapon was considerably larger than Roy's though. :yep
Click to expand...

:good

bailey · Oct 26, 2015

Serge said: ↑

Loudon is like yourself a scholar and a gent. However, I strongly believe he likes to bat for both teams (if you catch my drift) and he has a massive man-crush on Ward. He pretty much admitted to me once that he got extremely aroused by those nudie selfie pics of Roy Jones grabbing his wang, to the point that he couldn't stop thinking about them when he was making love to his women. Mind Reader also once revealed to me in confidence (sorry Mind Reader) that Loudon once emailed him some nudie selfie pictures he'd taken of himself mimicking the Roy ones too. Mind Reader did add that Loudon's weapon was considerably larger than Roy's though. :yep
Click to expand...

Each to their own

bailey · Oct 26, 2015

bailey said: ↑

For some reason I cant view any posts or see anything past post number 182 or scroll any further??
Click to expand...

Working again now :happy

Mind Reader · Oct 26, 2015

Thanks for the laugh Serge.. I was kind of having a bad Monday, that cheered me right up.:good

bailey · Oct 26, 2015

Mind Reader said: ↑

Thanks for the laugh Serge.. I was kind of having a bad Monday, that cheered me right up.:good
Click to expand...

What the picture you received?

Mind Reader · Oct 26, 2015

bailey said: ↑

What the picture you received?
Click to expand...

Super Hans · Oct 26, 2015

What are the realistic terms either Kovalev or Golovkin would have to accept in order to get a fight with Ward next?

I would guess:

- 168. Not a pound more, not a pound less (and Kovalev would likely be given a rehydration clause too)
- If not Oakland then defo somehere in Cali
- The biggest ring they can get
- Pillow gloves
- A ref from WWE as official (to ensure holding and headbutting is legal but punching with a closed fist is not)
- Ward v Kovalev/GGG on the posters, not the other way round
- Ward enters the ring second
- No PED testing
- Minimum of 75/25 split to Ward.

Mind Reader · Oct 26, 2015

Super Hans said: ↑

What are the realistic terms either Kovalev or Golovkin would have to accept in order to get a fight with Ward next?

I would guess:

- 168. Not a pound more, not a pound less (and Kovalev would likely be given a rehydration clause too)
- If not Oakland then defo somehere in Cali
- The biggest ring they can get
- Pillow gloves
- A ref from WWE as official (to ensure holding and headbutting is legal but punching with a closed fist is not)
- Ward v Kovalev/GGG on the posters, not the other way round
- Ward enters the ring second
- No PED testing
- Minimum of 75/25 split to Ward.
Click to expand...

Hahaha!

Doc Everlast · Oct 26, 2015

Ward no longer fighting on Nov21st.:happy

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