What really is a "lineal" champion???

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Ricdog, Oct 26, 2015.


Page 1 of 3
  1. Ricdog

    Ricdog Active Member Full Member

    644
    243
    Apr 10, 2015
    I hear the term used often, but can't really find too much info on it. Is "lineal" champion an officially recognized title by organizations or is it just a made up fan term used to describe who they think is a best champ?

    I've heard some people argue about what exactly it means, what do you guys make of it?
     
    Ricdog, Oct 26, 2015
    Ricdog, Oct 26, 2015
    #1
  2. dan4579

    dan4579 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,269
    420
    Apr 11, 2011
    It's the man who beat the man who beat the man.

    Hopkins unified middleweight.
    Taylor beat Hopkins
    Pavlik beat Taylor
    Martinez beat Pavlik
    Cotto beat Martinez

    Cotto is currently the lineal middleweight champion.
     
    dan4579, Oct 26, 2015
    dan4579, Oct 26, 2015
    #2
    yeyo monster likes this.
  3. Super_Fly_Sam

    Super_Fly_Sam Aus Boxer Full Member

    2,471
    13
    Oct 4, 2006
    Lineal champ is the man who beat the man, who beat the man, who beat the man.. etc....

    I don't think it's officially recognized but for example it would be like,

    at the start of 2005 Bernard Hopkins was universally recognized as THE real middleweight champ --> Jermain Taylor beat him --> Kelly Pavklik beat Jermain --> Sergio Martinez beat him (at middleweight for the titles) --> Miguel Cotto beat Sergio

    see the lineal connection?
     
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    #3
  4. Super_Fly_Sam

    Super_Fly_Sam Aus Boxer Full Member

    2,471
    13
    Oct 4, 2006
    ahh i got in to slow...

    What Dan says!
     
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    #4
  5. QuadrupleG

    QuadrupleG MAZAFAKA Full Member

    4,309
    3
    May 3, 2014
    So, lineage starts with an undisputed champion. What happens when there is an undisputed champion along with a lineal one ?
     
    QuadrupleG, Oct 26, 2015
    QuadrupleG, Oct 26, 2015
    #5
  6. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    22,750
    25,245
    Jun 26, 2009
    So in layman's terms, it's Ric Flair.

    Wooooo!!!!!
     
    Saintpat, Oct 26, 2015
    Saintpat, Oct 26, 2015
    #6
  7. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

    37,905
    7,502
    Sep 2, 2011
    And if Cotto/Canelo gets stripped, what happens to middleweight lineage? Are they still "the man"?
     
    Cafe, Oct 26, 2015
    Cafe, Oct 26, 2015
    #7
  8. Super_Fly_Sam

    Super_Fly_Sam Aus Boxer Full Member

    2,471
    13
    Oct 4, 2006
    I dont really know for sure. :huh

    but being undisputed champ is a safe measure for being 'The Man'

    again with the middleweights... you could say Golovkin is the undisputed champ as he's pretty much recognised of being the divisions king. But as stated above Cotto is lineal champ....

    :think good question
     
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    #8
  9. Super_Fly_Sam

    Super_Fly_Sam Aus Boxer Full Member

    2,471
    13
    Oct 4, 2006
    I dont think so...

    If they get stripped I expect GGG to pick up the WBC belt and start his own lineage
     
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    Super_Fly_Sam, Oct 26, 2015
    #9
  10. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

    37,905
    7,502
    Sep 2, 2011
    I agree, that's how it should be. If you don't hold any belts, the lineage is restarted.
     
    Cafe, Oct 26, 2015
    Cafe, Oct 26, 2015
    #10
  11. acie2g

    acie2g Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,738
    1,302
    Jul 21, 2010
    If The Cotto/Canelo winner get stripped/vacate, the Lineal Title would be vacated as well.

    A fight vs #1-2 or a new Undisputed Champ would have to be crowned to create a new lineage.
     
    acie2g, Oct 26, 2015
    acie2g, Oct 26, 2015
    #11
  12. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    396,440
    78,713
    Nov 30, 2006
    Neither. It denotes whoever currently holds the lineage of championship (who beat who in an unbroken chain barring vacancies/stripping/retirement/death), mostly useful for historians but also embraced by fans when discussing who 'the man' in a division is.
     
    IntentionalButt, Oct 26, 2015
    IntentionalButt, Oct 26, 2015
    #12
  13. Ricdog

    Ricdog Active Member Full Member

    644
    243
    Apr 10, 2015
    OK, but this is now where I start to get confused. So the lineal champion "beat the man...to become the man", BUT they don't always follow.

    Right now Adonis Stevenson is said to be the lineal champ at light heavy, yet Kovalev is cleary "the man" of the divison. Same with Cotto vs Golovkin in Middleweight. But then if the lineal champion loses the title of "the man" without actually losing a fight, then doesn't the "lineal" term becoming meaningless?
     
    Ricdog, Oct 26, 2015
    Ricdog, Oct 26, 2015
    #13
  14. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,740
    89
    Jan 14, 2011
    By that logic Martinez was no longer lineal middleweight champion when the WBC stripped him to give Chavez Jr a belt.
     
    purephase, Oct 26, 2015
    purephase, Oct 26, 2015
    #14
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    396,440
    78,713
    Nov 30, 2006
    They are two separate things. In a perfect world aligned, but not always the case.
     
    IntentionalButt, Oct 26, 2015
    IntentionalButt, Oct 26, 2015
    #15
Page 1 of 3