Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

Damn, then Vitali must be something really special, because he was successfully defending his WORLD TITLE against UNDEFEATED fighters at AGE 41. :hi:

Turdsters ... :roll:

 

charr, ahahaha.

K.S.D.O.A

agreed, but why are you self referencing again? surely you should be defending yourself, not destroying yourself?

K.S.D.O.A.


twice in one post.

 

Alas, Herol, more acronyms don't make up for the fact that you just got owned

 

good thing I didn't need to flaunt any more then, I just used the same old one. (ergo, k.s.d.o.a.). I've yet to need one other than that versus you, since you keep self destructing all on your own - I hardly need to even reply!.

but it is self harming to flaunt the terrible charr as a counter, it self destructs your own kliturd argument.

and you've no answered why you are calling yourself a kliturdster. seems very self destructive.

 

41 years old. World champion. Undefeated opponent.

If 36 is shototshyte then 41 must be abysmal, right?

Deal with it.

:deal

 

"the huge size advantage that he often enjoys"

So did Liston.

But as I pointed out in an earlier thread, Vitali was actually outweighed more often than Liston despite being 40 lbs. heavier.

"I didn't realize he had taken care of business so quickly so many times"

I wanted to see if the records would actually support viewing Vitali as merely an attrition puncher.

 

"Lennox Lewis"

My take is Liston is rather overrated,

and I'm comparing him to Vitali,

and accept that much of the criticism of Vitali's record is earned,

but Lennox Lewis is beside the point as I think he was on a whole different level from Liston or anyone Liston defeated.

 

There are I'm certain some good criticisms being made against Vitali,

but this is a bizarre one.

Williams survives Tyson's punches and knocks Tyson out.

Vitali stops Williams in his next fight.

This is used as evidence Vitali can't punch?!

*by the way I was very impressed with Williams watching the tapes of his fights with Tyson and Vitali, but I'm sure he will get labeled as just another tomato can. My take is that he in these fights is a world better than guys like the 1959 DeJohn and Valdes, and I would take him over Cleveland Williams also.

 

Williams was decidedly average. Tyson was absolutely shot at this point. The only reason Williams managed to survive Tyson was Mike injuring his knee. With just under 30 seconds left in round one Mikes knee buckles and from then on he is unable to get the same leverage. Until that point Williams was being wobbled and hanging on. Williams did nothing before or after the Tyson win

 

only thing abysmal is your spelling

you'd need to deal with charr first. which isn't going to happen.

so, sorry, no, but you've self destructed by using charr as an example of a spiffing world title opponent, as well as completely forgotten that vitali had good longevity.

 

I've taken a fairly lackadaisical approach to my writing on these forums, given the general quality, or lack thereof, displayed by the posters here. If you want to get into a p1ssing contest about English usage, I guarantee that you will come off second best. Your "only thing abysmal is your spelling" is in itself a laughable phrase rife with incorrect English usage. Try and see if you can work out why.

There's nothing wrong with Charr as a credible opponent. 21-0 at the time, a huge youth advantage and some wins over reasonable opponents.

Vitali had good longevity, despite being repeatedly afflicted by injury, because he was that damn good. :hey

 

My point is that Vitali's technique is not that of a power puncher. He has defence and keeping a balanced stance high on his list of priorities. He approaches fights from the viewpoint of an attrition puncher looking to counter and 1-2 rather than blast people out. Yet, his string of early KO's indicates that he did possess considerable power. I'm wondering if its not his size and conditioning that lend power to his shots that is not apparent from his conservative technique.

 

His "string of early KOs" is almost non-existent if we disregard his can crushing phase.

After beating Herbie Hide he started competing at world level and from that point on he had only 6 stoppages out of 22 fights that occured before the sixth round!

One was stopped on a cut (Charr), while the other was an obscene injury on his opponents part (Solis).

That leaves him with 4 genuine stoppages that occured before the sixth: Ed Mahone, Herbie Hide, Kirk Johnson and Orlin Norris.
Not the most brilliant set of names.

 

Being English I have seen a lot of Williams ,and your statement has just made your hitherto high credibility take a Kamikaze nose dive as far as I am concerned. He was never world class and barely Euro level most times .

 

Okay.

One problem is how punching power is defined.

If two men have five fights each scheduled for 12 rounds. One stops 3 of his opponents in the first or second rounds, and allows the other 2 to go the distance. The other doesn't stop any of them prior to the sixth round, but stops them all.

Who actually is the better puncher?

I would say the guy who stops them all.

A 10th round knockout is just as much a knockout as a 1st round knockout.

Scoring the most points in the first quarter doesn't make a team the best offense. Scoring the most points over a whole game does.

It seems looking at the record, that these so-called attrition punchers are the ones that it is most difficult to last a full fight against.

Also, as you touch on, it is also often a question of style. Some fighters simply don't go all out early, preferring to break down their opponents over a few rounds before finishing them off. If this works, why change?