Joe Louis vs Sonny Liston

This is tough! I Love Louis but might pick Sonny here.

 

Wow. Really hard one. Louis has faster hands, shorter punches, but, if I had to bet money, I would put it on Liston. Ron Lipton rates him as #2, right after Ali.

 

Joe Louis by KO, probably around the 9th or 10th round.

Liston was very good but Louis was better in every way with the only exception being the chin. I'm not saying Louis had a glass jaw, just that I'd pick Liston's over Louis'.

Louis was a little taller, Liston was a little heavier and had a longer reach. Both men were strong, jabbed well, punched hard, could cut the ring off well, and were great finishers. Louis had the quicker hands, neither man had quick feet.

Liston beat the likes of Patterson x2 (Hall of Famer) Folley, Machen, Williams x2, Clark, and Wepner. Louis beat Hall of Famers Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, Braddock, Walcott x2, Conn x2, Bivins, and Lewis.

Liston went 50-4 (39) overall, 2-2 (2) in HW World title fights, and was stopped 3 times. He beat just one lineal HW Champ (Patterson x2).

Louis went 66-3 (52) overall, 26-1 (22) in HW World title fights, and was stopped twice (avenged one of those losses). He beat 6 lineal HW Champs (was first all-time until Holyfield beat 7, Ali beat 5).

Louis' quicker and shorter punches would be the difference. He'd move inside of Liston's jab and right hand to land his precise punches. Louis would dictate the pace and use better ring generalship to win more rounds than Liston prior to the stoppage.

 

Good breakdown, but I see it totally the other way. I don't see Joe being able to handle the famous Liston jab at all. I think he continually eats it for 8 - 10 rounds then the bigger shots take their toll and Joe goes over and out in the 12th or 13th.

 

Liston was a poor mans Louis. Louis by mid fight TKO.

 

The Brown Bomber by TKO over Liston...

 

Those who stood and traded with Liston were road kill on the train tracks.

Louis wasn't a mover and didn't have a good defense or a chin to take punches on Max Schmeling's level. Liston hits harder than Schmeling, and has a complete ****nal of weapons, such as a long range jab, a smashing right, and light out left hook, and an uppercut.

Louis fought with his face too forward, and his guard a bit too low.

I'd pick Liston to win inside 8, but it went to the later rounds Sonny's focus and questionable intangibles could come off the track.

 

Louis, possibly the greatest heavy ever, KOs Liston.

 

questionable intangibles

I'll list a few Pugilists

Quitting twice vs Ali.

* Never getting off the deck to win * ( Research may be needed here )

Losing to Marty Marshall

Various allegations of cheating via a burning like substance that got into the eye of other fighters.

Blatantly fouling Machen, when Machen hit him back with counters.

I do not think Liston's intangibles were good. But in his case they were seldom tested. They would be tested with Louis if Louis got out of the early rounds

 

I agree with the concept of Liston's "intangibles" and also agree that they were not good. I also think that they may very well be tested by the great Joe Louis in the early rounds (Schmeling 2; Max Baer).

if we are talking best for best here, I like Louis by knockout.

 

Untrue that Louis fought with his face foreword. Look at his bouts where he was facing bigger stronger fighters or huge punchers. He would nimbly side step and counter. Then once hurt he would open fire with both hands. If you think Joe meets Liston mid ring and fights punch for punch you do not know Joe Louis. Louis would outbox, counter, pick apart and then stop the very one dimensional Liston. Liston was the fighter who could only fight one way not Louis.

 

The big guys Louis fought were stationary and lacked skills, yet some of them put him down ( Glateno and B. Baer ). Others like Abe Simon hung around for many rounds. Neither Tony Glaento or Buddy Bear had skills close to Liston's, yet they floored Louis.

We are talking about Sonny Liston here. His skills and power were much better than any big man Louis fought. Louis, in fact, had some issues with Tommy Farr's jab, and if memory serves he stunned Louis in round 11. Other skilled fighters like Conn, or Walcott outpointed Louis, even though they lost via KO. Conn at 168 pounds visibly rocked Louis-Conn was not close to being a puncher.

In terms of Louis defense, his footwork was rather slow and predictable. In his time, he was known as shuffling Joe Louis, a somewhat harsh but true comment about his footwork. Louis' guard was sometimes too low with and he did, in fact, have a stick you face forward stance. I have seen all the films.

To complicate matters for Louis, he liked to engage at a certain range, which put him in harms way before he even gets there thanks to Liston's superior reach, and in harms way when he does get there.