Is Calzaghe slated enough for sitting home with the WBO belt?

A few points:

Joe was a great fighter.

When people accuse him of staying at home, they're not referring to him literally staying at home in Wales, they're referring to the fact that he fought in Britain for the majority of his career.

Hopkins, Jones and Toney never needed to fight outside of their country. It's the advantage of being American. America is the home of boxing. They have the biggest promoters, the biggest TV networks, and the majority of the world's best fighters are based there. Over the years, countless fighters from around the world have gone to America to further their careers.

Toney does have a great resume. He has wins over Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum, Tim Littles, Iran Barkley, Vassiliy Jirov and Evander Holyfield.

Don't question Toney or Roy's resume, when they're both superior to Joe's.

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start a new thread would be better for that, then we could all list them

I've listed them on multiple occasions, its not my fault you don't read the good and just read the bad. The onus is on you to correct your shortcomings.

 

theres four pages of replies on here, some supportive, some negative


and this one reply...ONLY THIS ONE... tells you all you need to know...

why just mine?
or does that apply to everyones elses too?

cos if its just mine, you clearly have an agenda.

 

picking up my post, and no one elses criticism of joe.

and pretending you aren't now?

 

Herol don't play the victim it don't suit you:bart

 

Is that his resume which is better than Joe's? Evander Holyfield was 41 but that's ok and Hopkins is not....
Is that the same Iran Barkley who was beasted by Nigel Benn....
Is that the Tim Littles who lost to Frankie Liles who was beasted by Byron Mitchell the same one beasted by Joe.....
Jirov are you serious? Tell me who he beat that makes him any better than the likes of Lacey or Bika
I can give you McCullum but he did have a very close split decision with Herol Graham and was really a pumped up welterweight.
No arguments with Nunn, he was a yardstick fighter and his best win for me.
Reggie Johnson was not world class and struggled against the very best a bit like some of Joe's opponents.

I am not trying to say Toney was not good, he clearly was but got fat and lazy too soon in his career and never achieved the greatness he should have and his resume has holes in it a bit like Joe's.

Now give me Jones's Stella resume......

By the way, America is the home of boxing I will agree but fighters in the Uk do alright. Ask Ricky Hatton regularly watched by 20 to 40 thou sand people, Carl Froch 80 thousand people, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank 40 thousand people, Joe 50 thousand people, Mcguigan 30 thousand people do I need to go on. They don't need America for the money. They cross the pond and give up home advantage because they are fighters seeking out the best. Some succeed others fail but they at least give it ago. Andre Ward is watched by no one and and stays at home.

Only today, 2 superbantomweights who may or may not be the best have just announced a uk fight that will make them both in excess of £2m each. They don't need America but trust me, who ever wins will cross the pond because they are fighters.

When will your fighters cross the pond?

Thanks for the debate

 

I knew you wouldn't be able to do it. It's never too much effort for you to slate him - or for you to skirt around your claim - but a solitary post proving your claim is apparently too much effort.

Just admit you've been caught out and I'll move on. It's your obsession with a retired fighter that's your shortcoming. It's really weird.

 

nope, i knew you wouldnt be able to read them.

 

Maca2000,

Yeah, Evander was faded at that point, but it was still a good win. Toney was also faded and he had no business at HW.

Benn was awesome, and I was a huge fan. But I still give Toney a lot of credit for his win. It was a completely different match up stylistically, and Toney broke him down with sublime skills instead of ferocious power.

Don't go down that route mate.

Both Tim Littles and Frankie Liles were very good fighters, and Mitchell caught Frankie at the end of his career when he was faded. Frankie was also knocked out in his final fight after he'd lost to Mitchell.

Although Jirov was by no means a great fighter, he was a very tough, 6'2 southpaw, and Toney was faded at that point, and again, he had no real business at CW/HW at that point. He'd have never have fought those big guys had he have had more discipline.

You can give me Mike McCallum?

Mike was an amazing fighter, and he was still great when Toney beat him. In the early 90's, he beat Steve Collins, Sumbu Kalambay, Michael Watson, and as you've noted, Herol Graham. Herol was world class and he would certainly have held a belt in this era.

A pumped up WW?

What are you talking about?

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What? Of course he was world class. He gave Toney a very hard night and he beat a young Steve Collins.

I agree. But you've been very dismissive of his best wins. And if I applied the same criteria/logic to Joe's best wins, then it'd be left in tatters. Which is why you shouldn't have gone down the 'Littles lost to Liles, Liles lost to Mitchell, Mitchell lost to Joe' route.

Roy hasn't got an amazing resume, but he's still got a resume that's superior to Joe's. Especially when you take into account the manner of the victories and the circumstances involved.

Being a big fan of his, I'll list you his best wins:


Hopkins - Beat him with a fractured hand at 24, and Hopkins went unbeaten for a further 12 years.

Tate - A decent fighter who'd gone 12 rounds with Julian Jackson. Yet Roy iced him in under 6 mins. Then about 9 years later, Tate was scheduled to fight Joe at SMW, but the fight never happened due to him being injured.

Malinga - A decent fighter who gave Eubank and Benn tough fights, and who beat Reid. Roy beat him with ease, knocking him out in 6 rounds.

Toney - Won 11 rounds easily against a guy who was recognised at the time as the 2nd best fighter in the world. It's just a shame that Toney struggled with the weight.

Griffin - A very good, small, defensive counter puncher trained by Eddie Futch. In their rematch, Roy took him out in a single round, with a lead uppercut.

Hill - Although Hill was faded, he was a still a good fighter. Roy took him out in just 4 rounds with a great body shot. Also, Roy was the only guy to knock him out in 57 fights.

Johnson - Like Hill, Reggie was faded. But he was still a good fighter, and Roy beat him with absolute ease.

Hall - Nothing special, but a big southpaw who gave Dariusz Michalczewski two tough fights. Roy gave him a merciless hiding.

Harding - A big, awkward southpaw who'd beaten Antonio Tarver. This was one of Roy's toughest fights.

Gonzalez - A decent fighter who would go on to to end a faded Dariusz Michalczewski's unbeaten run. Roy beat him with ease.

Woods - A decent fighter who went on to have three good fights with Glen Johnson. Roy beat him with absolute ease.

Ruiz - By no means a great HW, but certainly a decent one. And Although he had a horrible style, it was very effective. He was tough, and he had a few decent wins. He also outweighed Roy by around 30 pounds, and Roy was 34 at that point, with almost 50 fights on his resume. Yet Roy dominated him with absolute ease.

Tarver - In my opinion it was Roy's best win. When another big money HW fight wasn't available to him, Roy signed to fight Tarver and had to shed muscle to make the weight. Tarver was a very good fighter, he was extremely motivated, and he presented Roy with a difficult match up stylistically, being a rangy southpaw. After the half way mark, Roy was absolutely exhausted and he had to grind out the win. If it'd have been a 15 round fight, I don't think he could have pulled it off.


There you go. Although it isn't littered with star names, it's still highly impressive, again, especially if you take into account the circumstances, and the easy manner in which he beat the majority of those guys.

If you want, you can list Joe's best wins as a comparison.

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I agree. But seeking out the best brings the most money.

I think most fighters will go to America for the money and to enhance their legacy. At least I hope so.

I've read about it earlier.

I can't wait to see it.

Who've you got?

I'm from Sheffield.

Likewise.

Anytime.


:good

 

You've made a fool of yourself here by making a comment that everybody knows to be untrue that you can't back up.

It was a most simple request yet you ask like you've been asked to move a mountain. It's tragic, it really is.

 

its you making a fool of yourself by claiming I don't write "calzaghe great stamina, great management, great longevity, good chin" right here, when I've written them for years on several threads.

and now its written again, completely ruining your pretence that I wont write it.

but the worst is that you've called someone else out as a fool, for your own foolery. I have no idea why you set yourself up for that, but you brought it on yourself, your own malice affected yourself and I bear you none.

 

Again, you're assuming that I'm somehow emotionally invested in this. I've tried to explain to you numerous times that I wouldn't even consider myself a Calzaghe fan, I just don't agree with you that he was some sort of fraud. The vast majority of the boxing world doesn't agree with you either.

Anyway, that's beside the point. I wanted you to write a list of things you think are good about him and you refused to do so - despite it being a simple and short request - so I baited you in to doing one, which you now have. Thank you very much.

Now you were saying about me being a fool?

 

why am I a fool for you needing me to rewrite stuff?

why do you think you needed to bait me to rewrite stuff I already wrote?


why are you pretending not to be interested in something that you are specifically asking for repeatedly?

why are you also pretending you weren't interested at all, having asked so many times?
explain.

 

Calm down. It's nothing to get excited about.

I'd never seen you write anything positive about Calzaghe before other than back handed compliments like he had the "best managed career" and so wanted to know if there was anything you did appreciate about him as an athlete.

It would have taken you two seconds to write this down but for some odd reason, you didn't seem to want to do that. Following some mild baiting you eventually caved and answered my question. I'm not pretending I wasn't interested, I said I wasn't emotionally invested.

In short none of this makes any real difference to me. I'd hope it's the same for you but you seem to be getting worked up about not wanting to list things you like about Calzaghe only to end up doing it anyway.