v. Rodney Bobick, a preliminary to Ali-Frazier III [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDvWOzPN8Wc[/url] I think the camp for this fight was the last time Holmes worked as a sparring partner for Ali, and he'd already become too much of a handful, too smart, for Ali in camp. Holmes looks quite impressive already, a bit green, but probably already capable of beating everyone but a few HWs out there.
What did you hear re: Larry being too much of a handful for Ali? Are you saying he was asked to leave or that he left because he wanted to pursue his own career?
That version of Ali beats any version of Holmes especially the 16-0 version. Ali here was still an ATG hwt and was punching harder than I've even seen him punch.
I mean he had become too good to actually learn anything from Ali by that point. He'd was being noticed as being as good or better than most of the contenders Ali was supposed to be fighting, and a smart enough fighter to trouble Ali in sparring sessions. Yes, to pursue his own career. If he had stayed it would have held him back.
I know what Holmes is like, his ego is bigger than his bank balance. He would have been trying his best in those sparring sessions with Ali and he probably believed Ali was doing the same. Ali didn't give his all in sparring.
Holmes said Ali kicked him out of camp because Larry was too fast for him, but I'm not sure on the date. Ali's toughness and strategy were great vs Foreman, but Ali if he fought this way would have lost to quite a few greats.
Holmes looked very sharp and probably could have taken a few of the lower echelon contenders by that point. He was still a good ways from being one of the elite though.
Holmes, admitted in his own book. That shortley before the Ali vs Foreman fight he stayed home and told Ali he was gonna pursue his own career. Ali, gave him and hug and wished him good luck.
No. My curiosity is more focused on when he was capable of beating Ali and the dynamics surrounding the fight camp at the time . My intuition is that Manila marked the end of the period in which Ali would realistically be the prohibitive favorite. By realistically I mean that personas aside and solely based on ability at the time. I thought Holmes looked OK against Bobick, but that he had obviously grown exponentially as a fighter over the two and a half years before facing Shavers. Ali's decline during this period is equally rapid. The bottom line is that I am a nerd for this stuff. That is one of the reasons I am always curious about source materials and anything that can give me more insight.
Yeah. Aside from Holmes's autobiography I have an inkling that writers who followed the Ali camp were becoming increasingly aware of Holmes's relative prowess and progress, and that Ali wasn't just coasting with him in sparring. I seem to recall in one of the Ali documentaries a writer saying as much, but I can't remember who it was, and there's a chance it was a revisionist statement made with hindsight. Being less vague, and contemporary of the time in question, I know that Red Smith wrote an article about the Ali camp on the eve of the Ali-Wepner fight, entitled "The Champion and His Court", published in the New York Times, March 24, 1975. He described Ali .... ... talking now about a tall young man on the fringe of the crowd. "The next heavyweight champion of the world" Ali was saying. "Larry Holmes ! When I started sparring with him I toyed with him. Now I win some rounds and he wins some. Larry Holmes, come over here where we can see you. I don't know if he's ready to go 15 rounds like that, but five or six rounds he can give anybody hell, I'm telling you - "
It makes me wonder what was Ali thinking leading up to October 2 1980. Did he think he could do it ? Putting it in Allah's hands?