50 Greatest Welterweights of all Time

With regards to rankings, you have to look BEYOND their resume, and consider their condition. For example, Manny Pacquiao will get considerably more props than other fighters because of his tiny frame as well as how much it disadvantages him in terms of his style.

Manny Pacquiao
W Margarito
W Cotto
W Bradley x 2 (will be future HOF, yes, two wins not one)
W/D Marquez
W Clottey (so underrated and HUGE)
W Algieri
W Rios
W Prehistoric Mosley
W Dead Oscar
L Mayweather
L Marquez

More reasons why he should be ranked higher:
1. Most of these fights were done when past prime.
2. He was not expected to be able to rise up the weights as well as he did. Being a former flyweight, he needs to get extra props.
3. He is an aggressive fighter with a small frame (don't bring up the bone issue as if it's relevant), needs more props
4. He had been through many wars, and had been slipping since 2011.
5. He DOMINATED the guys he beat
6. Cotto stated he was in good shape, after the fight. Margarito weighed 170lbs against a tiny Pacquiao.
7. Don't underrate the longevity of a past prime Pacquiao.

His losses:

Mayweather-Pacquiao
a. He was semi-shot
a1. Four years past prime
a2. Been in too many wars, his ring age is prehistoric at this point. Remember those wars against Barrera and Morales 10 YEARS prior?
a3. Torn rotator cuff
a4. Wasn't the ring general but actually landed more punches on Mayweather
a5. He had been KO'd BRUTALLY a massive 3 years prior! Boxers do not recover from knockouts like that, that was arguably the biggest knockout in history, too. Let's not forget that. We saw the effects of it vs Mayweather.
a6. That KO + being so far past prime had taken away the very attributes that made Pacquiao a threat in the first place.

To conclude, Pacquiao was a semi-shot, war town, psychologically stunted hospital patient.

Pacquiao-Marquez 4
a. Pacquiao had a very even rivalry with Marquez for 3 fights.
b. Rematches by nature favour a fighter like Marquez, more.
c. Pacquiao was past prime, not at the peak of his powers anymore.
d. Marquez always had Pacquiao's number like no one else. Should we scold Pacquiao so much just because there was this one fighter who happens to be an ATG, who just had you figured out in your era, and yet still failed 3 times in a row against you to beat you?
e. Pacquiao was still ahead on the scorecards.

Pacquiao's legacy at WW > Mayweather. That's not even debatable.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, father and son:
http://www.nowboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/Pacquiao-vs-Margarito-face-off-199x300.jpg

Look at Marg's face:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Yq0Kszc3f...rito+Face+After+Pacquiao+Fight+Pictures+2.png

and Cotto, too:
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/image.../532/216/93090313_crop_650x440.jpg?1326810709

and Rios:
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/de...e94a4a227645dc5690b03ecfe5c.jpg?itok=S9dFjHXh

http://pacs.yolasite.com/resources/pompyang2.gif

 

SRR
SRL
Hearns
Walcott

 

I should have said over anyone of any note. Walker was a great fighter but at 147lbs I don't see anything to rank him so high.Just my opinion.

 

I agree there are quite a few others who rate above Walker in welterweight accomplishments. Walker is one of those fighters who doesn't fare as well when you limit him to one division. His greatness was really his whole body of work and his ability to move through the divisions and compete with good and great fighters in all of them.

 

It's not even TWO wins over Kid Gavilan as a welter.
One of the bouts Robinson weighed over 150 pounds.

I agree with you, especially if we're disqualifying a sub-147 Robinson's wins against middleweights, as McGrain and Lufcrazy do.

Of course he's definitely top tier by any standard of resume/accomplishments. Bernard Docusen, Jack Doyle, Tommy Bell were good challengers. And wins against an aging Henry Armstrong, California Jackie Wilson, Fritzie Zivic, Marto Servo , George Costner among others were pretty solid.

 

Many of those were either past prime or their significant accomplishments were at lower weights.

 

Well, as I understand it, McGrain says if we move someone up a tier, we have move someone down. I'd say throw a few more names in tier 1 , but that's impossible I think, under the rules of these threads. And I wouldn't say move Robinson down just yet.
Yes, why he gets a tier to himself I can't say. But then if he's not number 1 who is ?

 

I find it hard to rank Pac as a welter tbh, I rank h2h and don't see him faring too well against the likes of Griffith, Hoya, Mosley, Tito etc

 

In terms of H2H, I don't rate him too high either.

 

Valiant, inspired effort. But at the end of the day, one of them was thoroughly outboxed the other and brutally knocked out by a common opponent who didn't win a single minute of a round against the other. :bbb

 

Yeah, I rate h2h pretty heavily too, so my list would look very different than this one.

 

I have him as a top 15 WW because he does have the speed and footwork to outbox those he can't overwhelm and there aren't many out there I class as more skilled than Manny, but WW is a stacked division in terms of skill and in terms of fighters who moved up to success in higher divisions.

There's just no way I can favour him to beat Tito even though I have him a massively more skilled fighter.

 

If we only count fights in which both Robinson and his opponent weighed more than 135 lbs and 147 or less he is, I think 39-0. Among them are victories over Zivic (twice),Angott twice, Armstrong, and Gavilan. Ranked contenders Robinson beat with these specifications include Norman Rubio, Marty Servo, Tony Motisi, Izzy Jannazzo, Jackie Wilson, Tommy Bell x2,Jimmy McDaniels, Jimmy Doyle, Bernard Docusen, and Charley Fusari.

So that's 17 wins against top 10 guys. 39 wins is more than Ray Leonard whole career and 17 wins against top 10 guys is equal to his career total as well. And remember I'm ignoring several wins against middleweights like Lamotta and a few wins over lightweights (as well as the first Gavilan fight). So it's fairly close to the entire career of Ray Leonard who is ranked pretty high.