Jofre or Arguello, who was the true FW champ?

Although one thing I do disagree, just for sake of tracing, I think a retiring champ I'd champ until criteria for succession is met. Just makes it look neater on my spreadsheet.

 

See I think Thil was there purely because the ring (incorrectly imo) awarded him the belt so he had a default high ranking but given his form at the time of Steel v Risko and his watered down comp I can't see a justification for having him as number 1. I think Steel and Risko were clear top two and since there was no active champion they fulfil the criteria.

It's shaky I know goddamit but during this era of ridiculously active fighters it is so hard pinning down rankings and sometimes you just have to go by general recognition. I mean Archibald v Rodak, we're they really the best considering recent losses both suffered, if rankings were fluid would they have been 1 and 2? Probably not but it was generally recognised that the winner was the champion.

Gives me a headache just thinking about it.

 

Yeah for something that wants to develop prestige and recognition it's the right thing to do. For me who has a spreadsheet that flows from one champ to the next, having periods of vacancy is less aesthetic and since I don't rank fighters on lineal reigns it makes no difference to me whether they have a 1 year or a 51 year reign.

 

But under what system can you have Archibald v Rodak as being champion but Steele v Risko as not. The rankings weren't able to keep up with so many bout during that period imo so that's why I fall to general acceptance which recognises both. There's also the Bell v Robinson title fight to consider.

The big trap is using Ring rankings when you disagree with a ring champion, they consistently change rankings of the top few fighters even if they don't lose but they don't demote champions (pre the ceasing of their championship policy) if they don't lose, so if they incorrectly crown a champion, the champions rating can be incorrectly inflated, do you follow me? If the ring never had a championship policy or had one and remained consistent (they awarded belts a lot more than you'd think before fights take place) their 1v2 rankings would be a great barometer but there are times when it doesn't quite work and persuasive argument becomes necessary.

Unless of course you can give me a system that remains consistent with Robinson vs Bell, Archibald vs Rodak and Steele vs Risko. The court is yours my friend.

 

I do agree with following NBA and NYSAC unification because they were generally recognised.

Brouillard v Dundee was such a unification though and even if it doesn't trace back to Thil beating Dundee thay was not a 1v2 matchup either and contenders often fought and beat each other until a unified champ emerged (foreign concept in today's climate) I can't think of any other NBA-NYSAC unified champs that aren't true champions. That's me being literal btw, I can't recall any but I might recognise some myself if I looked through my spreadsheet.

Thil muddies the waters but only, imo, because of the ring recognition he was awarded. Without thay recognition, he would have fallen to number 3, Yarosz v Dundee is 1v2 and unification and everyone is happy. The only difference between that and reality is its the ring who disagree with every man and his dog. Even Apostoli was calling Steele the champion after he murdered him and said he wanted a shot at the MW crown.

I do believe it's equally subjective dismissing the title credentials on past events as that opens up a whole **** can of worms for other claimants.

Of course I do count the other two guys as cases as champs I was just using them to highlight times when it wasn't 1v2 (pre WBS).

P.s. I must apologise, I'm getting distracted by work. I meant Yarosz v Dundee as 1 v 2 and Dundee vs Brouillard as the unification not Steele v Risko although I do believe that was also 1 v 2. Brouillard v Dundee was the unification of NBA NYSAC it just traces forward to the more memorable Steel v Risko bout. Sorry again.

 

I concede.

It doesn't feel fair going by unification when Thil had been stripped.

I do believe he wouldn't have kept his ranking without the ring title but it's not something I can be definite on because he was consistent.

After Walker, vacant throne until Zale v Abrams. I'm not overly convinced Thil was ever in a 1v2 fight and he was never globally recognised because the NYSAC was always out there and the two title holders always avoided each other until Apostoli v Steele which was over the limit.