Yeah, Lamotta was a big middleweight though, and very much superior to Chavez jr. But I don't see him stopping Sergio, who I think is underrated and showed he could take some punishment. And Jake wasnt that big a puncher. If Jake can beat SRR though and give him five close fights I think he would beat Sergio though. I think he takes the decision with his aggression.
I love sergio and great appreciation for what he did for a man his age and late start in the game. But Jake Lamotta troubled the much faster and more skilled Ray Robinson on a few occasions - even beat him.. It would take someone more along the lines of a Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins or Andre Ward to beat Lamotta.
I disagree with that logic. Sure, Robinson was fast but he didn't move around the ring and fully utilize his legs and mobility the way Sergio did. Sergio makes himself a more elusive target.
I don't consider 5'8/67-inch reach to be big for a middleweight. Throw in the lack of speed and relative lack of power and he's seriously overmatched here. If Robinson had used his legs more consistently and effectively like more recent fighters (including Sergio), LaMotta would have never been able to compete with him.
Film shows otherwise. Here is Robinson vs Lamotta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbVEeC-WjMU Below is Martinez vs Pavlik.. While Martinez had excellent lower body movement and utilization of the ring, I don't see him necessarily being superior to Ray Robinson in that area. It should also be noted that Martinez had the tendency to hold his guard low, which might prove dangerous against someone like Lamotta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCDYMDc0nnE
Id pick a prime LaMotta by decision. He was a very tough, very busy, fearless, physical, high pressure fighter. That would be a nightmare for Martinez.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree-- Robinson's lower body movement is excellent and fundamentally sound but Martinez' seems more dynamic and somewhat more elusive, imo. I've noticed in Robinson's fights with LaMotta that even when he's using his legs well, he would often steand and plant in ways that let LaMotta close the distance and get off first. IN any case, tough comparing these fights: it's a lot easier to fight someone like LaMotta from the outside than a 6'2/73-inch-reach/178-lb man like Pavlik...
not only did lamotta have a concrete chin, he also had concrete ribs. aren't canelo alvarez and cotto fighting for a middleweight title this weekend? lamotta > canelo
I tend to think LaMotta would either tire Sergio out and win a decision of get a late tko. But I also have a gut feeling that Pavlik on his best night might dish out a beating on Lamotta
He wasn't tall and didnt have a long reach, but he was, in lack of better words, big. I don't think Lamotta lacked speed, altough its hard to say without good footage of him in his prime. Was he considered slow? Sergio would of course be the faster man. Lamotta was extremly strong though, an aggressive pressure fighter with a vicious body attack. I don't think Sergio hit hard enough to deter Lamotta, and he didnt have the strenght to handle him in the clinches. He would have to be up on his bike the entire fight, and for a while he can do it. But in a 15 round fight I think Lamotta will beat the speed out of his body and come on strong late to take decision.
I always see people picking Lamotta by KO in these "mythical" fights. Lamotta scored 30 stoppage wins in 106 pro fights. He went 3-1 (2) in MW World Title fights and lost a non-title fight during his reign (Robert Villemain). He also beat Villemain by SD before he was Champ. Those 2 KO wins? KO15 over Laurent Dauthuille (13 seconds left in the fight and Lamotta was behind on points) and KO9 over Marcel Cerdan (Cerdan injured arm in 1st round when both fighters fell). Lamotta was great but he could be outboxed and I doubt he'd stop Martinez. Sure, he managed to get one win over Ray Robinson out of 6 tries. He was close to the maximum MW limit and Robinson was 145 Lbs. for that fight. Robinson went 5-1 (1) vs. Lamotta lifetime.