How good was Tyson in 96

The facts are he was never going to redevelop the skills, I've seen an interview with Tyson prior to facing Ruddock where Tyson mentions he's in the best shape of his career physically and mentally. Although he looked pretty impressive in that bout he was very beatable by a fighter of Holyfield's calibre.

 

Yes and he wasn't doing any better in the rematch, the fight was following the first path as the first bout. Holyfield had his number mentality and physically.

 

He was virtually `Shot` Bruno, McNeely, Mathis & Seldon was all beaten before the opening bell. Tyson's career was over the day he entered prison, to serve his 4 years. On his release, he had nothing other than ego and a big punch.

 

Yes I remember that interview. I'll have to search for it, maybe KO magazine, but I have a feeling it was a mainstream piece from Playboy or something like that. Am I right?

The plan was to emulate Tyson's unifying of the championship from the HBO tournament in '86-'87. Win the WBC belt, face the WBA champion next, defend against a faded ex champion of stature, then unify with the IBF titleist. Tyson was superstitious and his first fights out of prison ran a parallel course with the title unification. Things didn't pan out that way.

Which weighs more, a champion who after rotting for 4 years only has 8 rounds of battle under his belt? Or a somewhat faded former champion who gained big fight experience against the division's best? A fresher champion with a lot of rust or a faded challenger with better experience in the last 4 years?

 

Yes indeed. I think where Tyson came in overconfident in the first fight, he lacked confidence but was in far better shape for the rematch. I actually felt Tyson had a good shot during the rematch despite being outworked the first 2 rounds. The 3rd round he was connecting more, picked his shots better and wasn't wading in with the predictable 1-2 that Holyfield was timing. Holyfield was still spotting the lead left hook and ducking but Tyson wasn't wasting that many shots either.

 

Yeah, it was something like that, not a boxing magazine. It might have been in a weekend newspaper's supplemental magazine over here in UK.

Well I, like most others, figured Tyson to win.
Holyfield was expected to fight back at least but take a bad beating. Even people who gave Holyfield a good chance, or picked to win, against Tyson in 1990 and '91 thought things had swung far in Tyson's favour now. That was the perception. People feared for Holyfield's life.

 

Yeah I actually felt bad for Holyfield going in and hoped he'd survive until the 5th. :roll:

I know who you pick in a prime for prime battle. But tell me why? Break it down. Shoot me a PM if you'd like. :good

 

Prime for prime I'd pick Holyfield simply because I believe his style works almost perfectly against Tyson's ... and, also, he had such respect for Tyson's ability that he's going to get it right on the night. He wouldn't take Tyson lightly.

Holyfield was a boxer, a mover but not a runner, an intelligent boxer and also a 'counter fighter'. He was also an even better combination puncher than Tyson, imo, although not as powerful.
Holyfield liked to pile on the punches. His hand speed gets overlooked, and his accuracy in unsurpassed.

What will Tyson do ? He'll come straight at Holyfield, looking to slip and duck past any incoming punches and spring in with those powerful counter combinations. That's how he fights.
When Tyson succeeds Holyfield covers up or clinches, and tries to dig in a few punches. Tyson would land some big shots, no doubt. Of course this would take a lot out of Holyfield. Especially body shots.
Thing is, Tyson's not even going to succeed every time against a focussed Holyfield, becuase he's not going to have one or two haymakers of some flicking timid punches to slip past, he's going to have educated accurate series of punches - triple jab, straight right, left hook, uppercut through the middle - and when Holyfield lands a good one he'll be pressing Tyson back with more and more volume.

Tyson's successes will become fewer and fewer, his intensity and head movement dropped as fight went on anyway, even when he was winning. And Holyfield handles to broken rhythm of the fight better than Tyson, grows in confidence.

The more Tyson presses, the more Holyfield sees the openings. Holyfield thrived on that aggressiveness.

Basically it's just a cleaner, more skillful, sharper version of the 1996 fight. The same dynamic but both fighters possessing their original skill sets and attributes.

People say "Holyfield brawled too much in 1990" but he mostly 'brawled' because he was a competitive hurtful fighter in his own right.
I don't see it as a weakness in his fights with Dokes, Foreman and even Stewart. He controlled those fights over the long haul, and battered those opponents. They got in some good punches, had some good spells, but Holyfield won clearly and was never actually on the brink of losing or anything like that.
The only two fights where he 'brawled too much' was Bert Cooper and the first Bowe fight. He underestimated both, fought arrogantly. Understandly he figured Cooper would be easier, and he didn't believe Bowe could handle the pace.
But he always held Mike Tyson in the absolute highest regard. It would be in his mind to keep defensively tight and disciplined.

That's my take.

 

Good break down. I'm gonna keep this short for the time being, but Tyson's body attack would work wonders here. He'd work it overtime and with Rooney in the corner, well, you know the story. It would be a firefight. Tyson TKO 8

:good

 

Pretty good assessment

 

Post prison Tyson is vastly overrated by many posters. His record post prison is 9-5 and 2 NC. If you wish to credit him with the Golota NC as a win since his Tko was overturned because of a positive marijuana test fine. 10-5-0-1.

He could still punch but his stamina was bad, and his defense was gone. He was basically a three round slugger with a solid chin.

In those 10 wins- there was club fighter McNeely. Mathis Jr who was not much better. The possible Seldon dive. A terrorfied Bruno. Journeyman Ettiene. Savarese.

Really not a lot to write home about. He was a cash cow that was being carefully matched because he made money no matter who he fought.

To his credit he fought a good fight in first Holyfield fight. After that and the subsequent DQ. He really went into the tank.

 

The one shot that Holyfield used perfectly against Tyson was the body shot, he was timing Tyson's charges to perfection and countering him with hurtful uppercuts to his body, you could see they were hurting Tyson. Holyfield had Tyson's number plain and simple, he knew it and I think Mile did too.

Another massive factor, Holyfield could handle Tyson's power. If you anticipate and know what shots are coming you can take them, Holyfield showed this.

 

20% of himself in 1996

 

He was better than Bruno but not as good as Holyfield....

 

20%? I'm thinking more like 19.75% to be precise..